Psionic Elements

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Posted By: Garenzo
On: January 28, 2008, 01:35:42 PM

Okay, I don't know how many of you have gotten into the "elements" of Psi, but here they are:  Fire, earth, water, light, dark, air, nether.  I probably forgot one, but... meh.  You get the idea.

So my debate question for you guys is "Do you believe certain elements to be more "evil/good" "powerful/weaker" than others?  Here's my view point:

Based 100% on experience, my "core element" is fire, and "secondary" is dark.  I'm going to talk about dark for a while.

When you hear the word "dark", whether it be in starwars (the darkside of the force) or any other reference, its usually associated with "evil".  From what I've experienced, this is NOT the case with the dark psionic element.  I will say though, it can be VERY corruptive.  For example:  I'm usually not good with telepathy, but for some reason am decent at times with telepathic suggestion.  I sent a mass of dark energy programmed to make my mom buy me something.  I sent that over to her head, then went over to her and asked "HEY can you get this for me?"  (the object was a piece of jewelry from www.dragonweave.com )  I've asked her in the past, and she said "no" each time.  But I went up after using the dark energy, asked her and tried to convince her, and she finally gave in to buying it for me.  My point with it being corruptive is that if you're not careful, you will become dependent on it.  If you don't get what you want, you will start constantly using it.  Don't let it take over you.  Be stronger than what you control.

Moving on to fire... this stuff is fun as heck.  Now, I'm not saying I'm a pyrokinetic in real life and can start real fires, but I will say I am amazing at controlling the element itself.  I can easily set the ground of a cold cement parking lot on psionic fire.  How do I know I did this, and its not just AOL? (AOL = analytical overlay = fancy term for BS)  Well, for one, I could stand outside in 30 degree Farenheit weather and NOT be cold.  That is, not being cold WITHOUT a coat, jacket, sweater, or sweatshirt.  Just a t-shirt and pants.  I've had it sometimes where other people will take off a layer of their clothing even.  Might be just a hat or gloves, but that's a sign that they were getting warm.  Warmth in 30 degree weather? interesting...

That's all I have to say, and I will repeat my question from above:  Do you think certain psionic elements can be evil/good, or stronger/weaker than others?

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Transfered From Suscitatio Forum
Posted By: WingedWolfPsion
On: January 28, 2008, 04:01:31 PM

Those aren't elements of psi.

Maybe of elemental magick, or some other spiritual or religion-based energy-working path, but not psionics.

As a psion, calling light an element sounds...incredibly silly, I'm sorry.  Light is light.  Photons.  Not subtle energy, but a known energy.

Dark is the absense of light.  Calling it anything at all is just nonsensical.  It's a concept of something being not present, that's all.

I think my favorite element is #47 Ag (Silver).

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Posted By: Garenzo
On: January 28, 2008, 04:56:53 PM

Mm, actually I'd have to disagree.  Try this: make a psi ball (for a basic example) and tell your energy "act like the light element" or "act like a water element" you should definitely notice/feel something.   ... Uhh, hard to explain HOW I do it, I've done it so much its just easy now.
Hmm, okay, when I say "dark" energy, I'm not referring it to the color black.  Of course, it usually IS colored black, but it's named "dark" for its properties.  Allow me to give an example.

A while ago, I had asked my mom to buy me something from www.dragonweave.com and I tried convincing her, but she said no.  The next day, I made a cloud of dark energy and I sent the cloud into my mom's head and programmed the energy to convince my mom to listen to me.  After donig this I went up to my mom and asked her about the item.  I kept pushing on, asking her over and over (as I did before) and this time she gave in and bought me the item.  And trust me, when my mom says "no" the first time, she usually means it.  So she was most likely influenced by the dark energy cloud.

See, each psionic element has its own properties.  Fire would be hot (though its hard to significantly raise the temperature of a whole room) water/ice would be cold, etc.

I will say though, it's harder to explain with the Dark/Light elements, as you were saying.  It's..... it's really one of those things you'd just have to try out for yourself to better understand.  Properties of the Dark and Light element though, from what I've noticed:
Dark = powerful if used correctly, influencial(sp?), corruptive to the user.
Light = a good element to use with healing, and can be used to increase a psionic shield's strength.

Other than telling the properties, I honestly don't know how to explain those two... as I said before you'd have to experiment with it yourself.

At any rate, thanks for posting and sharing your opinion.

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Posted By: WingedWolfPsion
On: January 28, 2008, 07:21:58 PM

Mm, actually I'd have to disagree.  Try this: make a psi ball (for a basic example) and tell your energy "act like the light element" or "act like a water element" you should definitely notice/feel something.

I do.  It's a sensation of giddiness...remarkably similar to a giggle.  I don't talk to psi balls, normally, that might be part of it.

   ... Uhh, hard to explain HOW I do it, I've done it so much its just easy now.
Hmm, okay, when I say "dark" energy, I'm not referring it to the color black.  Of course, it usually IS colored black, but it's named "dark" for its properties.  Allow me to give an example.

A while ago, I had asked my mom to buy me something from www.dragonweave.com and I tried convincing her, but she said no.  The next day, I made a cloud of dark energy and I sent the cloud into my mom's head and programmed the energy to convince my mom to listen to me.  After donig this I went up to my mom and asked her about the item.  I kept pushing on, asking her over and over (as I did before) and this time she gave in and bought me the item.  And trust me, when my mom says "no" the first time, she usually means it.  So she was most likely influenced by the dark energy cloud.

And not by your intention to influence her, with energy applied along with it?  Have you tried the same thing using...well, any other color pattern in the energy?  Or no color patterning at all?  Have you tried just asking along with a good energy shove at her head?

See, each psionic element has its own properties.  Fire would be hot (though its hard to significantly raise the temperature of a whole room) water/ice would be cold, etc.

I can make hot-seeming energy that looks just like water.  Or ice.  If you want.

I will say though, it's harder to explain with the Dark/Light elements, as you were saying.  It's..... it's really one of those things you'd just have to try out for yourself to better understand.  Properties of the Dark and Light element though, from what I've noticed:
Dark = powerful if used correctly, influencial(sp?), corruptive to the user.
Light = a good element to use with healing, and can be used to increase a psionic shield's strength.

Other than telling the properties, I honestly don't know how to explain those two... as I said before you'd have to experiment with it yourself.

At any rate, thanks for posting and sharing your opinion.

I'm sorry...just doesn't fit in with psionics.  Psionics is generally a more bare-bones and scientific approach to psychic abilities use.  There are many other energy-working paths out there, but this sort of elemental associating isn't something I've generally seen in common use in psionics.  I've only seen it mentioned when people are specifically studying 'elemental magick' on the side.  Then too, I was taught psionics without the use of any externally-derived energies--auric energy only.  I simply do not use the sort of elemental associations you're talking about, unless i'm trying to psych someone out by giving a construct those properties--ie, if you throw a construct fireball at someone, their own mind will make it seem more impressive than what you programmed into it due to the associations it has in their mind.

I don't need to use any sort of 'dark energy' to influence someone--just the right pattern for that specific task.  I can make it look like light, love, and lollipops, it makes no difference.

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Posted By: Garenzo
On: January 28, 2008, 08:06:21 PM

1. I didn't mean literally talk, but send a telepathic thought or just think it ... program was the word I was looking for.

2. Yes, actually I have.  Once made a green blob and tried it on my dad for something, didn't work.  I know I know, different person, I was changing the variables.  Meh, that's all I have to say for that.  And yeah, I've shoved energy at people's heads before, many times.  Not much happened.

3. Looks aren't everything though, now are they?  I know, I'm kinda contradicting myself here when I say that, but if you use the ELEMENT ITSELF, and for example, tell the element fire to be hot, you will have a greater effect than making a block of energy ice and telling that to be hot.

4. Yeah, of course... everybody's views on things are different, and the best part is nobody's always 100% correct on everything in the world of psi.  Nothing can be proven.... Well, fine.  A lot can, but nothing can 100% convince someone or can be proven to be factual.  So really, my dark may just be me making it black and all that, and/or you may just have the wrong views on things.  At any rate, we continue with what we think we can do, and hope for the best.

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Posted By: CerebralAssassin
On: January 30, 2008, 04:51:53 PM

Generally speaking what works for one may not work for another, but I also use elemental energies when I make constructs and what not, but that does not make it wrong.Just means you were taught differently and everyone should choose the system that works best for them.

Hope this helps some as to everyone being different somethings may work for you and not others, but just as long as you are comfortable with it makes the difference.

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Posted By: WingedWolfPsion
On: January 30, 2008, 06:37:05 PM

It's just that fire isn't an element.  You know.  Except in MAGICKAL systems.  Or alchemy.

For elements, refer to the periodic table.  For states of matter, refer to a physics textbook (There are more than 4 now).

Energy formats are more useful when dealing with psi energy (IE, a wave, a particle stream, a field).

My main objection here was the assumption that psis use magickal elements (most don't), and the basic idea that there is some need to assign such a philosophical element to something in order to create a given effect (there isn't).  Programming energy to seem like fire doesn't do anything other than...well, just that.  You made the energy seem like fire.  You gave it those properties.  They are exclusive of any other properties it might have.  The only way that impacts anything is if you're trying to make someone else perceive it as fire, or it affects YOUR OWN MIND and causes you to deal with it differently as a result.  That just makes it a tool, like a crystal ball, or a pendulum, or a set of runes.  None of those these are actually necessary, and they don't make effects stronger unless an individual believes they do.  IE, it's a derivitive of the placebo effect.

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Transfered From Suscitatio Forum
Posted By: Syko Dragon
On: January 31, 2008, 02:45:29 AM

There are different elements in different senses.  The fire, water, earth, etc "elements" are usually considered in Elemental Magick.  There are elements in a scientifical sense as well (i.e. hydrogen, oxygen, copper, etc).

From the title of the post and given the topic of psionics, I had thought that the "elements of psi" were meant to be towards the basic foundations of psi, which actually have nothing to do with fire, ice, etc.  It has everything to do with energy itself.  What you're talking about, Garenzo, are aspects/"elements" that can be effected by psi.  The methods can vary and work for different people, as CerebralAssassin pointed out, but that has nothing to do with the Basics of psi.  Though, it may seem, and is many times misconstrued, that focusing on a particular part of a method (such as the heat of a "fire element" or even the color itself) is in fact psi itself.

There are many different factors to psi and just as many applications of it.  From my experience, most psi techniques deal directly with psi itself, rather than a influencing outside factors or factors from "within" (such as Chi originating from your center)- not to say that there aren't techniques in psi that don't deal with influencing energies indirectly.



Anyways, sorry for the long post.  Hope you all have Great Training!

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Posted By: NyteMuse
On: January 31, 2008, 03:47:38 PM

I agree with WWP and Syko, and would pose a question to them.  Since we are trying to stick to a similar lexicon here, I have heard Qi Gung masters refer to "mountain Qi" or "water Qi".  I'm not sure if that's because it relates to the qualities of the Qi or the source of it (I would hazard the former).  Would you still describe that as assigning the Qi elements in the magical system, or would you call that something else?  The issue I find myself running into is that "mountain" isn't a natural element.  I suppose it's sort of earth-ish, but I believe Qi Gung has made differentiation between mountain Qi and other types of earth-ish Qi.

Random thoughts/babbling...

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Posted By: WingedWolfPsion
On: January 31, 2008, 07:54:54 PM

Well, earth isn't a natural element either.  The Japanese 'element' system includes things like forest, mountain, and river--13 in all!  Chinese has Metal, Water, Wood, Fire and Earth.

"High" Elements:  Celestial, Void, Wind, Spirit

"Low" elements: Fire, Earth, River, Ocean, Mountain, Forest, Thunder, Time, Sound

Qi just refers to any sort of subtle energy in that system.

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Posted By: Syko Dragon
On: January 31, 2008, 09:15:40 PM

Yes, as WingedWolfPsion had said.  The "elements" in Chinese culture are there more-so for their attributes and characteristics than for the actual "element" itself, just how there are fighting styles that are like the Tiger, Crane, Dragon, etc.  It's not that you are indeed that particular animal, but more trying to embrace the characteristics of that animal.

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Posted By: Paradox
On: February 04, 2008, 01:24:10 AM

**Jumps in with not much to contribute**

I know someone who uses psionics and magick and he uses psi to make a capsule if you will, and then fills it with an elemental (magickal element) energy and seals and programs it for what ever he wants to do.  Do any of you psi experts here do anything similar or even acknowledge this is viable?

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Posted By: WingedWolfPsion
On: February 04, 2008, 04:54:16 AM

Uh, just sounds like a simple construct, done in a way probably more complicated than it needs to be... *shrug*

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Posted By: Paradox
On: February 04, 2008, 10:03:53 AM

Well the next question is kinda psychic vamp related.  Could you create a construct and fill it with energy for later (for vampire food rations)?  Because in the craft we do something very similar but with stones and other physical vessels. And the other question is could the human energy be kept for a long period of time without stagnating?

**Please excuse the vampire noobery**

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Posted By: Garenzo
On: February 04, 2008, 10:19:29 AM

Referring to WingedWolf's and Paradox's statements, you COULD make a capsule, fill it with the magickal element, then use THAT, but as WingedWolf said, that WOULD be a construct and it WOULD be too much work.  With me, since I've worked with it for so long, I just, you know... "do it".  I summon the element and use it.  Simple as that.

Referring to Paradox's post directly before this one, yes, of course.  It's quite possible to create a construct of any type of energy, or draw from a source, and store it somewhere for later use and easy access.  Try taking the energy from an outlet (or wherever you take it from) and store it in something you carry with you.  If you wear jewelry, put it in that and draw from it as you need it.