Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]

[Kotori_Distari]

Out of curosity, I was wondering over the different methods for keeping track or remembering dream recall. There's a few different types I've run across myself and in my thoughts it brought these questions to mind:

* What methods do you use to recall your dreams?

* Are there any personal tricks you find that help you to recall them?

* What medium (such as a personal paper journal or on-line journal) helps you maintain a log of your recall best?

* Have you maintained regular logs using different methods? Or only if one method is currently unavailable to you?

* Do you favor one medium over another?

* Does your current methods allow for in depth recall or partial?

Just curious as to the methods others use and how it helps them.
_________________
"It is by no coincidence that we run into certain people throughout our wanderings in Life. The reason we do so is because we are meant to learn something from them -- good or bad we learn."

[nightchild]

when remembering a dream to write it down on a piece of paper make s it more easlier to find out what the dream was saying.
_________________
who dares not speak his free thoughts is a slave.Euripides

[Kotori_Distari]

That's the general concept. However, I'm looking for more specific details. How many times have you woken up and can't manage to pull the recall to mind to put it down on paper? What I'm wondering is -- what kind of tricks you or others may have developed in order to draw those images to mind so that you can record them in a dream journal or whatever recording method you choose? Do you have some memory tricks you use to remember your dreams? Do you have any writting exercise tricks that jog your memory about your recall? What helps you remember enough to start making dream logs?
_________________
"It is by no coincidence that we run into certain people throughout our wanderings in Life. The reason we do so is because we are meant to learn something from them -- good or bad we learn."

[nightchild]

There some good books on how the deciver dreams and there symbols. Sometimes when having a dream or nightmare sometimes i remember it and try to figure it out by letting it lead in the direction it is going. But then i had dreams which made we wonder how one got there or wake up and it's as like you are not allowed to remember what the dreams was about. You probalby had these dreams aswell beeing in places but not knowing what it really means or having dreams which are far from a dream cause normally in a dream you don't feel anything even when touching it.Laying in your bed hearing a voice saying something eye's open up but there i nobody in the room.
or a nightmare so intense when waking up you know there is something in the area cause your heart is racing when you wake up.But i think thru meditation you can learn to control the mind even when asleep.
_________________
who dares not speak his free thoughts is a slave.Euripides

[Sandy]

There is a science behind memory in relation to brain function. If your interested in this then I can post some information.

I can also dig up some psychological and neurological (academic) journal articles for you.

I just don't want to spam your thread unnecessarily. There are a few tools that I have used to further my own scholastic pursuits that really helped. But I don't know if you would find them relevant in relation to remembering dreams.
_________________
"I can calculate the motions of the heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people."
- Isaac Newton

Words to live by. . ."Love all, trust a few, do harm to none." -- William Shakespeare

[Kotori_Distari]

I find that I can't just reference dream dictionaries or symbolism books alone Nightchild. When recording my recall I find that there's more feelings and such attached than most of the books I've referenced on-line or off-line to decipher meaning from a dream. If you'd like to see what some of my usual recall ends up being like I'd posted one up under this section of the forums. It is pretty long though...so you'd have to bare with it to see. One of the tricks that I've found helpful for me is establishing with myself that my memories are always with me...just sometimes it takes a bit more prodding to get them to resurface consciously. Because of that I don't feel that stress I used to about not recalling something as soon as I wake. I know that later on I'll recall it later even if I'm not sure when.

Sandy, please reference me that material. I'd love to see more on what you know. I don't think that particular aspect is a tangent I've fully explored. I'm sure it'd be helpful to others as well so don't be afraid to spam a bit of information. *chuckles* I like to devour info. So if you can, please post up what you have -- links or references that you've found. I'd really appreciate it if you could show me what you've found.
_________________
"It is by no coincidence that we run into certain people throughout our wanderings in Life. The reason we do so is because we are meant to learn something from them -- good or bad we learn."

[Sandy]

This is a work in progress, so be aware that I am still compiling the information that you requested.

I will be adding to this bit by bit.

These are some old school notes that I dug up.

This is the brain area that was thought to be involved with sleep states and wake states.

NOTE:This area will be mentioned a lot in the discussion on experimentation.

I have provided this picture just in case you want to know what it looks like.



The following is a brief discussion about the brain areas that are involved with wakefulness, and the neurological experiments that have aided in studying sleep/ wake states.

It is important to note -- that without these experiments and the general research done by cognitive scientists--we would still be ignorant of the how's and why's of the unconscious and conscious states.

Scientists in this field are continually learning, and trying to understand human nature and why the brain causes "us" to behave in certain ways.

I will only relate the most current research--I won't bore you with any historical experiments.



(The experiments were done on kitties--poor kitties.)

F. Breemer’s cerveau isole preparation: (Isolated forebrain preparation)

Breemer performed surgeries on lab cats where he severed the inferior & superior colliculi (located in the forebrain). (See picture for reference)



This action ceased certain sensory info from arriving via the spinal cord, which subsequently deprived certain parts of the brain of important sensory information from the spinal cord and brain stem.

This particular surgery caused the cats to sleep all the time.

The cats also seemed to have desynchronized EEG patterns. (Crazy, weird patterns)

Breener deduced that sleep occurred because there was a lack of sensory information traveling to the cerebral cortex (these are the parts of the brain that propagate higher brain functions. These cortical regions are found in the forebrain).



He also concluded that wakefulness was a result of sensory stimulation. (FRIGGIN DUH!!!)

Further experimentation and brutality perpetrated by Bremmer in the name of science will be relayed below.

F. Breemer’s encephale isole preparation: (isolated brain preparation)

Breemer performed surgeries on cats where he made an incision on the brain just above the spinal cord.

This experiment’s results were a bit different---in that the cats had normal sleep cycles.

More experimentation. . .

G. Moruzzi &. Magoun performed experiments on the reticular formation-- which is a network of nuclei and pathways that start at the hind brain and travel about to reach through to the midbrain. (A picture is provided above)

Their experiment focused on the RAS (reticular activating system).

Moruzzi et al stimulated the reticular formation electrically and found that the reticular formation created beta waves, EEG arousal, and behavioral alertness. (Beta waves occur when we are awake or in a light sleep state)

What does this all mean? Well, stimulating the reticular formation electrically mimicks environmental stimulus. (as if we were seeing, feeling, hearing, or tasting something--bear in mind none of these stimuli were used to illicit such a response)

They also noted that the disruption of the RAS caused low wave EEG recordings (less activity) which are a characteristic of sleep.

Animals whose reticular formation were damaged seemed to be in a state of perpetual sleep, but lesions or cuts at the ascending sensory pathways did not hinder normal sleep/wake patterns.

Very important---

All these new findings aided to disprove Breemer’s conclusions, however further experimentation with the RAS would also aid to disprove Moruzzi & Magoun’s theory.

Moruzzi and colleagues later found that if they transected the brain stem at the mid-pontine level (an area that runs through the middle of the pons) this specific action caused the cats to not sleep at all; they were unable to do so.

(heres a picture that might help you visualize. . .not that you'd want to--)





They deduced that the caudal brain stem or an area around it was the area that induces the need to sleep.

It is important to know that not every one agrees and research is still being conducted

Other scientists believe that the raphe nucleus is the area that induces sleep.

Raphe nucleus= cluster of nuclei found in the brain stem.

The most current experimentation done on the RAS has concluded that the reticular formation is not the unitary nonspecific system that Moruzzi and his colleagues had hoped. But the function of the RAS is still valid.

A QUICK FUN FACT: The RAS is where scientists believe the conscious mind resides.

More crap about the reticular formation--

Mid brain reticular formation: receives nonspecific sensory info from all the sensory systems and stimulates the cerebral cortex by projections that run through the thalamic nuclei

The RAS functions by influencing or exciting the cortical areas. It essentially tells these areas that new information is coming via the classical pathways.

RAS has neurons called the locus coeruleus. These are really cool to look at.

I wish that I could find a picture that did them justice--gggrrr. Here's what I could find.




What they are--

locus coeruleus: are a group of blue neurons that aid in cortical activity and behavioral alertness.(Many cognitive disorders occur when these suckers geek out)

The locus coeruleus also participate in REM sleep.

These particular neurons also have connections to other areas in the CNS--which means they aid in other forms of basic and complex functions.

If these neurons were destroyed or harmed then the harm done to the brain regions would causes a person to sleep more and spend less time awake. (Think about some one you know who has sustained a head injury--they tend to spend a lot of time sleeping; now you know why. (These neurons are located in the forebrain--the area of your brain that corresponds to the fore head.)

Remember that neurons must utilize neurotransmitters to synapse; in regards to sleep the locus coeruleus utilizes the neurotransmitter nor epinephrine.

Just a small note about neurotransmitters--this is the juice, the chemical that allows your neurons to fire. They can be likened to gasoline and an engine.)

The release of nor epinephrine causes a gaiting effect. This gaiting effect then causes increased attention to environmental stimulus. (This is why you stay awake when things are happening around you.)

RAS—influences cortical arousal and behavior functions. Cortical arousal itself plays a distinct role in how we behave when we are awake. (The word cortical is an umbrella term for general areas in the fore brain)
---------------------
Here’s some info about sleep states and the areas involved with sleep.

Some history about research that was done in this field will also be mentioned.

2 types of sleep

Non REM
REM

Both types of sleep are regulated by different brain mechanisms.

NON-REM SLEEP (NREM)

This state is characterized by a lack of activity or general biological deactivation.

Raphe nuclei: located in the reticular formation, on a long thin strip that runs along the midline on its caudal part. (Caudal is a directional term used to describe Anatomical locations--it means toward the back or toward the tail.)

The Raphe nuclei utilizes many kinds of neurotransmitters’ such as Serotonin

Drugs that lower serotonin levels have been known to cause a decrease in non-REM sleep. The drug PCPA, parachlorophenylalamine is just such a drug

Damage to the Raphe nuclei lowers overall serotonin levels in the brain. The lower amounts of serotonin can be correlated with the sleep loss associated with damage.

Research conducted by Jouvet & Renault found “that activation of the Seratogenic Raphe nuclei initiates and maintains non-REM sleep”.

New research has countered the contention that the Raphe nucleus “initiates” non-REM.

Subsequent research has found that stimulation of the BASAL FOREBRAIN REGION has been shown to induce sleep in laboratory animals.

The basal forebrain region is located in an area anterior to the hypothalamus that includes the area where the pre-optic area is located. (Anterior is also a directional term that means in front of.)

Damage to the basal forebrain region can cause sleeplessness.

McGinty and Szymusiak’s research “suggests GABAegenic neurons in the basal forebrain region are responsible for sleep inducing functions of the area”. (GABA is another important neurotransmitter)

Current research shows that the pre-optic area may have a larger role in NREM sleep than previously thought.

The preoptic area may also be the area that causes us to become sleepy---research conducted has shown that people become sleepier in warmer weather.

Yeah--I know that sounds weird, because many people can not sleep if it is too hot.

Let me get off track a bit and explain.

Your body is governed by a biological clock that controls things such as sleep. Every one's clock is set differently, but one thing that is the same is that we become tired when our body temperature reaches a certain degree--when we are the warmest.

The circadian rhythm thing also explains why some people suffer from insomnia, are night owls, etc.

Back on track--

Why we are sleepy in warm weather--because thermoreceptors in the skin send info about temperature to the pre optic area which has neurons that are particularly sensitive to temperature.

PET images have shown that NREM seems to have a global pattern of deactivation which reaches through out the brain, these images differ from those taken during REM or wake states.

Recent research has found that the lack of activity in certain parts of the brain during NREM is actually the same parts of the brain that are active during REM sleep. (I think that is pretty cool--when some parts of the brain are awake others are resting--LOL)

REM SLEEP


**Here goes some stuff about dreams--

Most people think REM and dreams are the same thing, but some scientists believe that they are governed by different brain mechanisms.

REM is controlled by the cholinergic brain stem mechanisms—the caudial reticular formation.

Dreams require mediation by the prefrontal mechanism involved with dopaminergic pathways. (This is the pathway that the neurotransmitter dopamine utilizes to reach its destination)

Cholinergic pathways= the route that acetyl cholline etc take. This is a pathway specifically designed to shuttle this particular neurotransmitter around.

Dopaminergic pathways= the route that dopamine uses to stimulate specific neurons, etc.

Evidence that supports the theory that the two (dopamine and dreams) are governed by different mechanism can be seen by the fact that dreams can be altered by dopamine agonists & antagonists without actually affecting the REM sleep, and that it can be started by the forebrain which is stimulated during NREM sleep.

Agonists and antagonists= certain drugs that effect the nervous system a particular way. The words themselves should give you a clue to their action.

Jouvet (1967) feels that the locus coreuleus may govern REM sleep. Remember that this area is also associated with cortical arousal and behavioral alertness (the pretty blue nuclei).

However, recent research has shown that activity in the locus coreuleus is associated with the absence of REM sleep. And actual REM sleep occurs when the locus coreuleus is NOT ACTIVE.

What happens when the locus coreuleus is not active? The decreased activity of the locus coreuleus stimulates the caudal reticular formation, which then causes the initiation of actual REM sleep.

rCBF=caudal reticular formation (I hate this abbreviation--it was really hard to remember.)

PET scans have corroborated the role of the rCBF in relation to REM sleep.

PET scans have shown that the “rCBF was positively correlated with REM sleep in the rCBF and PRF both located in the pontine tegmentum, the left thalamus, the amygdala, the anterior cingulated cortex, and an area located on the right parietal lobe

Parts of the limbic system involved with REM= amygdale & cingulated cortex

Evidence of the amygdala’s role can be seen in the fact that REM sleep is involved with some memory consolidation, and since the amygdala’s functions involve consolidation of memories with the emphasis on those memories that have emotions attached to them, this notion is feasible.

When both the amygdala, & the cingulated cortex are activated together they illicit an emotional response--this could be why there is sometimes an emotional aspect to REM dreams. (Think sex dreams, nightmares, etc)

the possible role of the prefrontal lobes in REM sleep--lies in the deactivation of the prefrontal lobes during REM sleep.

Deactivation of the prefrontal lobes is associated with the following characteristics:

**Dreams that seem to feel strange in relation to time, a distortion of time.

**Dreams that seem to be illogical—without reason

***Forgetting the dream upon waking
EEG of sleep stages


Just by looking at the EEG, it should be clear to see that the waves of a waking person differ from the waves of a sleeping person.

The EEG patterns of our brain during wakefulness occur rapidly, and quite irregularly. This specific pattern functions on a low voltage.

When I say low voltage--I mean that lots of neurons are firing at different intervals and at different times, with varying degrees of strength. This activity is occurring constantly.

Here’s an example that may help to clarify this a bit . . . think about a time where you were in a crowded bar.

(Bars=stimuli heaven)

It seems in these places a unified hum of voices without a clear differentiation between them often occurs.

BZZZZZ. . .

This is an example of what happens with in the neural circuits of your brain when we are awake.

This irregular electrical activity is called beta waves or beta activity.

However, when we are relaxed and devoid of mental arousal, the EEG records a wave form called alpha waves or alpha activity.

Alpha waves are much slower than beta waves.

These two waves (alpha and beta waves) represent the irregular firing patterns that occur in the larger areas of the brain.

Generally, brain activity is desynchronized while alpha and beta activity is occurring.

It is important to mention-- that sleep is not a random process; instead, it is a very organized one. This organization can be read with the use of the EEG.

Based on EEG patterns, we can divide sleep into several stages.

(FUN FACT: The sleep stages were named after the first EEG read outs.)

When we first fall asleep, we are in stage 1 sleep or what is known as light sleep. It is characterized by (mostly) theta activity.

Theta activity has a frequency of 4 to 7 Hz. (SEE everything is electrical—everything has a charge.)

Stage 2 sleep consists of more theta activity with the addition of sleep spindles and K complexes.

Sleep spindles utilize 1 to 2 second bursts of 12 to 14 Hz worth of activity.

Furthermore, sleep spindles can be described as a single large negative ly charged wave that is followed by single large wave that hosts a positive electrical charge.

(This stage uses potassium K+ (positively charged ion) and utilizes a complex that metabolizes it.

Stage 3 sleep adds delta activity to the mix. Delta waves have a frequency of 1 to 4 Hz.

Stage four—known as the deep sleep. This stage utilizes delta waves which will now dominate all the other waves mentioned before.

Collectively, these four stages of sleep are known as nonREM (NREM) sleep.

It is also important to note that stages 3 and 4 are also called slow-waved sleep (SWS),

This name was given because the rate of activity outlined in the EEG is slower than in normal waking states.

Stage five is REM sleep. (Rapid eye movement)

It is also important to mention that the sleep stages are cyclic.

Once REM sleep is achieved, the cycle reverses itself and goes back though stages IV, III, II and again to III, IV and REM.

Throughout the night, this cycle occurs at 90-to-100 minute intervals.

Duration and quality of the sleep stages vary across age groups.

I’ll talk about dreams in my next installment—then I’ll talk about learning and memory.

I'll add in the tools I utilize to remember crap like this stuff and other ridiculous peices of useless info.

REMEMBER THERE IS MORE TO COME. . .(That is--if you want me to continue on this current path and train of thought.)


Not being graded on this, so excuse my shoddy use of syntax.

This was a nice little refresher for me—learning occurs when you process information and then continually practice it. YAY!
_________________
"I can calculate the motions of the heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people."
- Isaac Newton

Words to live by. . ."Love all, trust a few, do harm to none." -- William Shakespeare

[nightchild]

alot of problems start of in the brain example the greatest sex tool is the brain. But there are 2 halfs of the brain and one compensates the other so in other words you could say ppl only use a small part of there brain. This is what one heard once i don't know your inside upon that. Iv'e got this interest with the spychic abilities from rmeote viewing to astral traveling or even lucid dreaming like saying you are dreaming you can fly which i had more then once and you feel yourself flying thru the air. I don't know what you position is upon this subject?
There are thing's which have happend which goes beyond the mind to understand. I'm not critizing the psyche or those whom study it but to have an open mind not ever hurt anyone.
_________________
who dares not speak his free thoughts is a slave.Euripides

[Sandy]

[Kotori_Distari]

*giggles* Sandy, you're a living reference library now! I'm going to have to catnap you more now! *chuckles* I'd like to see more of what you have if you don't mind sharing. You are displaying a bit of a different angle than what I'd originally thought, but I don't mind -- I really like to learn about the multiple perspectives and see how they relate with each other. There have been so many various books and such written on one aspect or the other, but I know I've not been able to go and read through all that's out there yet. If you don't mind...would you add your own personal notations on how you see this relating to anything I've asked so far? I really love the images you've tossed up there as well...gives a nice visual reference. There is a lot that we take for granted...you're right. Always makes me wonder what would happen if people more actively tried to tap into all of it...

[Sandy]

My previous post has been amended.

Like a good girl--I'll post all my references when I'm done.

Dreams, learning, remembering--next time.

Feel free to tell me to shut up at any time.
_________________
"I can calculate the motions of the heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people."
- Isaac Newton

Words to live by. . ."Love all, trust a few, do harm to none." -- William Shakespeare

[nightchild]

I personally find psychology very interessting even on te subject of depressions/manic depressions but this is beside the fact.
My father used to be a cop for the justice departemnt and i now even more can figure out ppl thru there words but then i lean out to understand a more darker form. And ppl like to believe they understand it all but forget how easlie it is to read ppl just by there words escpecially when you are single you take the time to just sit there and study ppl there behaviour.
Some ppl are easly scarred by a person whom just sit's there and just watches without saying a word just watching that's what is fun to do this way i find out whom they truly are but what run thru my mind most of the times of living without a girl and beeing rejected by woman whom assume they are better or to good. They are not goingf to get of with a smack in the face.
don't mind what i'm saying some ppl are drawing the line do you think it's all related thse thoughts which tend to be violent even to know last night i had this strange dream iv'e been having them alot. So i'm assuming it all comes together with years of rejection ad beeing denied of having the love of one woman that only hate can grow towards society itself and it's ignorant and arogant lifestyle it is today.
Can you answer this for me Sandy?
_________________
who dares not speak his free thoughts is a slave.Euripides

[Kotori_Distari]

*sheepish grin* Got caught up with a few things. Interesting info you have Sandy. It does suck that he used poor kitties in the experiments. But that does toss another perspective on things I hadn't gone over yet myself.
_________________
"It is by no coincidence that we run into certain people throughout our wanderings in Life. The reason we do so is because we are meant to learn something from them -- good or bad we learn."

[SoulSplat]

If anyone hasn't suggested it yet:

Dream recall has to be done as soon as possible after awaking in order to retrieve as many details as possible. At the moment the time limit escapes me. but if surpassed, the details will be forgotten forever.


Hope this helps.
_________________
A politically correct holiday statement from the AVA:
Have a good whatever, whenever, however!