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Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]  |  Vampires & Vampirism  |  Vampire Community & Subcultural Discussion (Moderators: Merticus, SoulSplat, Eclecta, Maloryn, Zero)  |  03.14.11 - Vampire Community Article - Armitage Soulshroude 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 03.14.11 - Vampire Community Article - Armitage Soulshroude  (Read 51872 times)
RKCoon
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« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2011, 02:17:25 pm »

"Became drama"?


News flash kids - the INTENT of this entire post was to piss off the community. No more, no less. Its been drama since the word fucking do, and dont get bitchy about people that simply responded to provocation.
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darkrose
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« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2011, 03:23:08 pm »

Hello PD.
You asked--"What would you call someone who needs to use vampire methods then?"
Indeed, from the start, I called myself a vampire. Why? Because I instinctively drank human blood and fed off of human energy. So, not having any other resources availabe to me, other than what was already written about vampires, I consider myself to be a living human vampire. I mean, what else could I possibly be? The definition of what a vampire is, was the closest thing that described what I did. It wasn't entirely accurate, but it seemed to be close enough. After all, how else could I communicate what I was? The older I became,meaning-teenage years and early twenties, I felt the need to congregate with others like myself. In order to do that, I had to be able to communicate what I am. So, I found the underground vampire community. I did not wear fangs, or dress in vampiric fashion. I did not sleep in a coffin. I did not live the vampire mythos 24/7. I was not like the majority of the vampire community. There is nothing wrong with doing those things, whatever makes you happy. Still, vampire, seemed to be the only definition that fit. So, I didn't think anything about calling myself a vampire, a living human vampire. That's when I realized, there were probably other people, who were like me. People who didn't pretend to be a vampire, in the literal sense, but had vampiric qualities, that set them apart from most, of the rest of humanity. So, I began my mission of finding the others so that we could learn from each other and make it an easier road to travel, for those that will come behind us. For surely, there will be more.

Still, deep in the back of my mind, I knew that "vampire" as it is defined, is not what I truly am. At first, before the Sanguinarium took off, and even with the internet as a tool for us to help find the "others", we were still a close knit group of people. At the risk of sounding like I'm stroking my ego, I need to use a piece of the vampire community history, to convey my perspective. Sorry, you can't take out the "I" in a history lesson, if you are part of said history. My magazine,'The DarkRose Journal', was one of the first places that feeding off of human energy was introduced into the community. I didn't say it was the first, just one of the early "trailblazers" to bring that type of feeding into the equation. Quickly, others followed. Most notably, Michelle Belanger. And then of course, Todd Hoyt, founder of the Sanguinarium, jumped on it like a fly to honey. This was a relief to a lot of people, who also had these qualities, but did not know where to turn to for understanding and knowledge to help them better understand themselves. So, even though people weren't drinking human blood, they were feeding,mostly, off of human energy, and were calling themselves vampires. Vampires feed off of either human blood or human life force to sustain themselves. So, yes that would seem to be the best thing to call ourselves. We communicated with each other, by calling ourselves vampire. In the beginning, before the massive OVC existed, we did not have the problems in our community that exist today. We did not care what method someone chose to feed. It did not matter whether you drank human blood or drank human life force. It was all good. We respected each others individual needs. We did not pass judgement. We were all in the same boat, more or less.

I still think that the word vampire is probably the closest word that descrbes what we are. Yes, it has been tweaked to fit the modern version of what we are. Since becoming public, especially the psi aspect of vampirism, more and more people have come forward to become a part of the community. Albeit, mostly as an online presence. Because things change. The community has changed to accomodate the masses of people who believe that they are vampires. Which makes it hard, for those who are truly "vampires"--I guess that is also subjective. Who can prove, especially online, whether they are just pretending,so they can feel special, or truly need the support of the community because they really are struggling with vampiric issues? Which makes it hard to sift through all the nonsense that takes up space in the OVC-which is most peoples access to the community-so the people who truly need the help, can indeed find it. For those who truly have vampiric qualities, this is not a game. This is a way of life. This is their quality of life. It seems, in my observed opinion, that most of what transpires in the OVC, is role playing and mind games, that are in no way beneficial to those who truly need the help and support of the community.

So, the older I became. The less worried about labels I became. The less I cared about the need to feel special, and the less I needed to feel that I was a part of a special group. The more I needed to be honest with myself. Part of the reason I resonated with the word vampire, is because it did set me apart from the masses. It allowed me to be a part of an exclusive club. Then, when that club was no longer exclusive and became all inclusive,and I was no longer one of the stars of the club, I stepped back from said club. I was  not what I was before I stepped back. I did not behave the same way. I still drank human blood and drank human life force. But things changed for me. I no longer called myself a vampire. So, how then did I define myself? I didn't, not really. My vampiric qualities do not define me. They are simply a part of what I am. They are not the totality of what I am. Over the years, through trial and error,I have learned a lot about my abilities and what can be achieved with them. Because, I can give as much as I take from people, while feeding, I don't think that vampire is the correct label, anymore. A vampire's nature is to take, not to give, to sustain his quality of life. I have moved beyond that. As I am sure that others in the community have as well.

I just feel that we can help more people if we didn't have to use the label of vampire. Perhaps, because I feel that I have moved beyond the generally accepted definition of vampire, I don't belong in the vampire community, anymore. For, it seems pretty clear to me, that vampire is the word of choice. The community is already established as a "vampire" community. I totally understand why "vampire" is the word of choice.  I, too, have vampiric qualities to my nature. In the writing of this post, I realize, that I am the one who has changed. I am the one who no longer feels that I am a vampire, as defined by the community. Perhaps, I should move on. But, if I move on, from the community,how will I help those, who do indeed need help? I am not saying that I am the only one capable of helping those who are just starting out on this adventure that we call vampirism. But,even though there are some who disagree,having lived through something and gaining wisdom that can be shared to help others, who might be going through the same things, is part of what a community is about. I know some people think, that the knowledge that they now posses, somehow magically appeared. No one had to live through those experiences so that the knowledge can be made available for future generations. Kids today and through out history, they have no respect for those who came before and paved the roads so that they can walk on them.

So, I retract my earlier statements. I learn from my mistakes. Perhaps, vampire is the correct word to use. Perhaps, I need to find a word for myself, that I feel more accurately defines my own nature. But, I don't want to give up my citizenship in the vampire community. This community has been home to me for a long time. I want to stay and continue to educate and help those who need it.

I don't have a suggestion for a more appropriate definition. At least not for the vampire community as a whole. I concede, vampire is probably the best word to use.

I apologize if all the vampire history is annoying for some people. I genuinely feel the best way to convey my perspective of the vampire community, is to sometimes, use that which came before. History, does have a way of repeating itself.
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legardored
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« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2011, 06:42:05 pm »

So, I retract my earlier statements. I learn from my mistakes. Perhaps, vampire is the correct word to use. Perhaps, I need to find a word for myself, that I feel more accurately defines my own nature. But, I don't want to give up my citizenship in the vampire community. This community has been home to me for a long time. I want to stay and continue to educate and help those who need it.

I don't have a suggestion for a more appropriate definition. At least not for the vampire community as a whole. I concede, vampire is probably the best word to use.
I think its not important having a more appropriate definition for us. Instead we need to think about what name people can find us on. I don't think people could find us any faster than with the word vampire. Especially with the booming in vampire media and the internet. True the word holds a lot of negativity to it but what group doesn't have that? And yes that means we have the occasional person who lives in his/her own world. Or makes fun of our condition,mental state or call it what you like. But we can deal with that if we can't than we are in no position to help others anyway. Labels are annoying I personally hate them with a passion. But we need them to some extend.

Darkrose even if you toke a name different than Sang/Psi or vampire it doesn't mean your out of some club or this community. Who would truly want to be still part of it if that happend? Would be a good kick in the groin to open-mindedness if you ask me. This is not to be negative but Darkrose my advice have a bit more confidence in yourself and the community. Name yourself what word/definition you find suiting, and most important be happy with it. No one can take away what you done.

To some extend I agree that people should be more respectful to people who paved the previous path. But do you really believe its the majority that doesn't show its respect? I think its a few loudmouths who seek attention just like the the fake psi vs sang war stuff. Its sad that its got so much attention because that makes it look like its real. I as Sang personally seek council at a friend who is Psi. I wouldn't want it otherwise. To me it gives me a lot wider view of situations than to a Sang I fully relate to. Learning is about getting different views and not using blindfolds when something doesn't fit your way of thinking.

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I apologize if all the vampire history is annoying for some people. I genuinely feel the best way to convey my perspective of the vampire community, is to sometimes, use that which came before. History, does have a way of repeating itself.
I think there is never enough history in a post aslong as you also relate the story to the present. Now that the overly defensive behavior is out of the way your post is a lot easer to read and to learn from. I think its a improvement.
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Catori
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« Reply #78 on: March 28, 2011, 07:01:32 pm »

Dark Rose....as I said to CJ, it does not matter if you call yourself a Bemmoknockatock instead of vampire. You still have needs that have to be met like others here. That is what brings us together more so than some mere word/name. What does it matter if you use something else or nothing at all? Though I am sure vampire is what other first seek and such...but int he grand scheme of things...we are who we are and we need what we need. Period. End of story. To make such a fuss over a mere word is absolutely pointless when you look at the bigger picture. As Legardord pointed out, okay...there are some negatives attached, but through meeting so many people like myself...I see the positive more so than the negative. I guess I learned this a long time ago in a MUCH different community. The dog show community. "Oh so what breed do you own and show"..."GHASP THOSE Pit Bull THINGS..." followed by sheer terror and verbal attacks based upon media hype and false information. I could have rallied to rename the breed, screamed for us to call them something else, but no...I preferred to see them as they really are and reach out to teach others about the breed when the need arose. Otherwise, they are just yet another terrier type of dog with certain traits they share with other terriers...but over all..they are still dogs. Does that make sense?
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« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2011, 08:42:58 pm »

Yes, Nadia, your post makes sense. I agree, whole-heartedly with what you posted. As a matter of fact, I did not mean to make such a fuss over usage of the word vampire. Indeed, I was not looking at the bigger picture. I was, actually looking at myself, and how I have changed. I transferred those thoughts onto the community. I did make the statement, "It doesn't matter what you are, it only matters what you do." It is indeed what I really believe. I have not participated in the OVC very much in the last few years. The community in its totality, is so much more than the internet. I forgot that the OVC is a different animal than the community outside of the internet. I am not caught up on all the "issues" that are currently permeating the OVC. I hope that my future posts will be more useful as a tool for shared learning. I need to get use to the OVC, all over again.

It's true, I have not had that much confidence in the current OVC. But, like I just stated, I have not been an active part of it for a few years. I, do however, have a lot of confidence in the community as a whole. I made a commitment to it, many years ago. I most assuredly want to see that commintment through, to the end.

Realizing you have erred in your judgement of something and changing your views due to listening to others views on the same subject, and deciding that the other views are indeed the correct one, does not mean that you do not have confidence in yourself. Admitting that you learned something from someone else's perspective, is how people grow and evolve.
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paindancer
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« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2011, 08:52:25 pm »

(after the day I have had today.. I cant express how nice it is to open up the laptop and have some interesting info to read)

There is so much Yes in Nadia's, legardored and Darkroses respective posts.

I think the term 'vampire', is about as accurate as a blind man with a sawed off shot gun.  It didnt used to be that way.. it used to be incredibly exclusive, a guarded underground society, but as time has gone on, it has become more evident that a much wider swath of folks resonate with the concepts.  I certainly see the 'special' factor as  a major reason for resentment and drama.

Certainly, there is a point for many of us, where we are at a 'what the heck am I moment'.  A point in time that I have on many occasions coined an 'ego freefall', where we are looking to define who and what we are.  Are we human?  We might be monsters?  etc.. so yes, we reach out for the familiar archtypes available to us.  Vampire is a pretty known set of parameters, and it makes sense that many have adopted it as a framework.

All things evolve.  If anything, the recent communal angst of late may not be so much about aggressively attacking what vampirsm is not, but really coming to grips with how much the definition has changed to encompass so much.



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Paindancer
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« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2011, 09:06:02 pm »

DarkRose,
i want to thank you for all you have done for this "community" ...
what you have done over the years , few can compare.. I do hope you take a active part in the OVC to help Re-shape things that have went to shit of late...
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legardored
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« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2011, 10:14:49 pm »

(after the day I have had today.. I cant express how nice it is to open up the laptop and have some interesting info to read)
Nice to hear that Paindancer though sorry about your day in general.


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I think the term 'vampire', is about as accurate as a blind man with a sawed off shot gun.  It didnt used to be that way.. it used to be incredibly exclusive, a guarded underground society, but as time has gone on, it has become more evident that a much wider swath of folks resonate with the concepts.  I certainly see the 'special' factor as  a major reason for resentment and drama.

I love the comparison with the blindman totally absurd gonna remember that one ^^ As with all things the community indeed evolves for better or for worse. And well I don't really think someone would have to lose there feeling of being special. Its more the part were being special is mixed/confused with being more important and having more to say. In my eyes we all are or own student and mentor at the same time.

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Certainly, there is a point for many of us, where we are at a 'what the heck am I moment'.  A point in time that I have on many occasions coined an 'ego freefall', where we are looking to define who and what we are.  Are we human?  We might be monsters?  etc.. so yes, we reach out for the familiar archtypes available to us.  Vampire is a pretty known set of parameters, and it makes sense that many have adopted it as a framework.
Some find comfort in the word vampire others in the mythology or lifestyle aslong as it is not being abused by them I really don't think its a bad idea actually more healthy. Fascination can also spark respect, but that depends on the person nothing we can ever do about that.


Realizing you have erred in your judgement of something and changing your views due to listening to others views on the same subject, and deciding that the other views are indeed the correct one, does not mean that you do not have confidence in yourself. Admitting that you learned something from someone else's perspective, is how people grow and evolve.
Comment about the confidence was solely meant on the citizenship part. What I meant was that no one ever has to be afraid of being rejected. It is not a membership thing with bouncers at the door (at least not the OVC) You barge in introduce yourself and people either take you in or they ignore you. They can never reject you solely on what you belief and they shouldn't. But I think you know this to maybe you just needed a reminder.

I completely agree that learning or changing your view, based on careful analysis of the information presented to you is a healthy, necessary development. And certainly not related to a confidence problem. I seen it far to often (real life, online) how people are afraid to be proven wrong. They just go attack the other person in the hope he or she fights verbally back so they can feel they are right. To me that is a cardinal sin.


And that said I also want to thank you for your dedication and love for the community.

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Soulshroude
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« Reply #83 on: March 29, 2011, 04:10:01 am »

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And why, praytell, should I respect bullshit when I see it? If you were paying attention to what I said to whom, youd find that, while always challenging, only those that have proven themselves to not be WORTH respecting here got the actual ass reaming, while others, namely you and your topic, got my simple, hardnose analysis, without the flagrant flaming or name calling - something that even you recognize your article bordered on.

I am not asking you to respect B.S., I am asking that you keep a temperance about you and to remain civil for a time without creating an insulting or instigative atmosphere.  I know you love to call those b.S.'ers out, so do I.  But there is a time when it is not needed.  Just to learn about perspectives.  If you don't agree with those perspectives, then by all means.  Go for broke, just do it in a different thread "calling" those b.s.'ers out on what you think is b.s., the only thing I am really asking is that you remain civil in this thread, as the only thing I am seeing is a creation of chaos and intolerance.

As well, I know what I wrote and why I wrote it in the article and the way I phrased it when I wrote it.  That paragraph will remain the same.

The "Sang" and the "Psi" as interpreted are the roleplayers, taken away from the truer form of "Sanguinarian or blood drinkers (actual vampi/yres) and the "psychic" vampi/yres who are actual energy takers.  This is also covered in the article.  The "sang" and "psi" are seperated on purpose and is also pointed out as to why in the article.  The point I am trying to make in the article is that the actual VAMPI/YRE has the NEED TO FEED.  But most of the roleplayes and lifestylers tend to segregate themselves into those set stereotypes.  The true vampire does little segregation because we have the instinct to know how we feed, why we need to feed and when to feed.  The problem with the community is that some of us have become so jaded that we tend to forget which is which and why the segregation is so popular.

So in a nutshell, I call out those wanna-be's into proving that they (sang) can survive drinking blood and (psi) to drain anyone and prove that they are actually draining someones energy by making that person become lethargic.  Only then, will I take them seriously.  I know quite a few true sanguinarian and psychic vampires who are capable of both and have proven themselves time and time again.  It is only those who flaunt themselves as "sang" and "psi" that I call out.  The true vampi/yre always humbles themselves and has a very quiet demeanor about them then the rest of the flock.

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Although, I will note that you are now doing the same Ive seen many other do within th OVC - accuse people that would DARE to disagree with them in anything more than an asskissing way as being trolls causing drama. Amusing how flexible that bolded word can be, these days. 

Don't insult my intelligence... I do not accuse those who dare disagree with me, never have.  If I disagree with someone, I discuss it with them.  But I never disrespect someone by accusing them of anything.  I always remain civil toward all people regardless as to whether they are part of the community or not.  Let people have their thoughts, let the haters disagree with intolerance.  Let those who are too afraid to speak their mind, because they think they will be looked down upon by their peers, keep quiet.  But, in the end... those who speak their mind, no matter how candidly they get, have my full attention at all times.  I respect them for doing so.  I don't respect people keeping quiet out of fear, and thus I try to pry their opinion from them in the most respectable manner possible in order to subside that fear they might have linguring.  Rest assured, they will begin to be more outspoken with the greater trust they have for their fellow members of society.

I am going to have to agree with Paindancer as well, Coon... instead of ranting of on tangents, I would like to read what you have to say and see your perspective.  Without the bully tactics that I see from you, time and time again.  I do dislike bullies, physically, or mentally.

Anyone have anything to add that won't be considered as drama mongering?  Let's see those respectable perspectives!
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« Reply #84 on: April 13, 2011, 07:15:37 am »

So, after waiting for a few weeks of just wanting some respectable questions and or a discussion of merit... as well as a non respectable reply from RK Coon, I am now under the impression that either the members within the community don't really care about respectable discussions, or don't really give a rats ass about taking the initiate to create subjective questions that are relevant to the topic.  Or all they want is infighting and endless drama is what drives them.  Either way, more power to the lot of you for not even remotely trying to prove me wrong.  What ever cares the community has still remains to be seen with the almighty "blame game" of he said/she said, "we are right/you are wrong", "sangs suck/psi's drewl" crap that is spewed at every corner.  As soon as you all grow up and at least try to understand all the the vampire is... either out of research or just asking someone their opinions and openly trying to understand them with tolerance, then you can come back to this thread and actually give some feed back.  But until that time comes, you will be mocked by me... unless you are those few individuals that have grown up and can hold a descent conversation... you know where I am, and you know how to hit the reply button on this thread.
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« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2011, 08:35:17 pm »

So, after waiting for a few weeks of just wanting some respectable questions and or a discussion of merit... as well as a non respectable reply from RK Coon, I am now under the impression that either the members within the community don't really care about respectable discussions, or don't really give a rats ass about taking the initiate to create subjective questions that are relevant to the topic.  Or all they want is infighting and endless drama is what drives them.  Either way, more power to the lot of you for not even remotely trying to prove me wrong.  What ever cares the community has still remains to be seen with the almighty "blame game" of he said/she said, "we are right/you are wrong", "sangs suck/psi's drewl" crap that is spewed at every corner.  As soon as you all grow up and at least try to understand all the the vampire is... either out of research or just asking someone their opinions and openly trying to understand them with tolerance, then you can come back to this thread and actually give some feed back.  But until that time comes, you will be mocked by me... unless you are those few individuals that have grown up and can hold a descent conversation... you know where I am, and you know how to hit the reply button on this thread.

wtf?
you know damn well people have their heads up their asses on face book....
besides, why are you asking for a fight?
that made no sence at all.....
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paindancer
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« Reply #86 on: April 13, 2011, 09:39:29 pm »

Wow, that was a blatant 'pay attention to me' post.  Unclinch the sphincter, you will be ok Soul.

You had some good things to say, people started discussing positively and the topic seemed to dwindle down.

All the boards went dead it seems. 

Not disregarding the tremendous amount of work you put into the OT.. its good stuff, and I think it really changed the tone around here in a positive way.  Fact is, what is known is a relatively small amount of info.. there is only so much you can do with it.  Hell, I half way wonder if half the drama isnt just boredom.

So, instead of laying down the gauntlet and challenging everyone, put out some more food for thought.  Start a new topic.. hell, figure out why the hell I feel like I am in a body 4 times too small and with half as many limbs as I should have, if you are really that bored.  This dual existance thing is fucking painful, lol!  Hell, I suppose I can debate you on points of the original post.



Pick a article out of the library perhaps and start a discussion.
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Paindancer
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« Reply #87 on: April 16, 2011, 02:14:21 am »

Your missing the point, its not only on facebook or online for that matter.  Half the people who claim the distinction of vampi/re don't know what any definition of being a vampi/yre is, let alone how to act like one.  Thus all the crappy infighting.  They have their heads so far up their asses, that they don't take time to research what, why, or how they came to be as "vampi/res".  It is only "human" to argue or debate with others since those who claim to be don't really know why they want to claim to be other then for the sake of "fitting in" to a group that accepts them from a society that doesn't really give a crap what they think or feel.  So until people actually get their heads out of their asses, then we can finally discuss something with good intentions.  Maybe I am asking for an online fight.. so what.  It's not like it will go anywhere other then being a hypocrite in the "infighting" and sharing the random acts of insults.

Painkiller:

I could personally care less who pays attention to this thread.  I just want it back on course and have a bit of maturity about it instead of the blasted infighting.  But we both know it is a moot point.  I wrote the article to make a point.  Who ever gets that point, more power to them.  I lay down the challenge because of all the infighting, if people think they know what it is to be a vampi/yre then let them come forward and speak their minds.  If not, then shut the F*CK up with all the "sang" vs "psi" crap that is being spewed or the "holier then thou" attitudes that seem to be plaquing us right now.  We can look for a debate all we like, but it is not about a debate.  It is about understanding.  I am sorry if few individuals in the far between category have yet to come forward with their thoughts.  I am also sorry if people read my words as "acts of aggression"... we all know that I could really care less about half the community, there are only a few within it that actually understand themselves anyway.  So the backlash I am used to.  Been there, done that.  But thank you never the less for your "pay attention to be " comment, it is much appreciated.  Try some tolerance for once.
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paindancer
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« Reply #88 on: April 16, 2011, 10:56:09 pm »

Your gauntlet remains where it was thrown.  Again. 

Damn, hows a drama vamp supposed to feed at this pace?

Chuckle, the only debate I was alluding to was if some of the LA spots you mentioned were really vamp spots.  Guess I just take it all too casually.
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Paindancer
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« Reply #89 on: April 16, 2011, 11:34:34 pm »

Ya know, id be careful, bandying about that term 'drama vampire' there, PD - seems recently one of the bigger "drama vamps" is catchin some flack for it.
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