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Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]  |  Vampires & Vampirism  |  Vampire Community & Subcultural Discussion (Moderators: Merticus, SoulSplat, Eclecta, Maloryn, Zero)  |  03.16.11 - Blood Is Not Psi! - Zerochan 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 03.16.11 - Blood Is Not Psi! - Zerochan  (Read 24541 times)
Bennu
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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2011, 12:38:37 pm »


I believe all Vampyres are what they consider HYBRID? We are Vampyre and we are human  being as our bodies are human. When I first awakened I was sure I was just "sanguine" (as you call it; though I chose not to) and I suffered until I noticed I could also feed psychically and only because of that I am somewhat ok but always needing more energy. Blood is a very rare thing esp now a days with all the blood born pathogens. I cannot see how anyone can afford to just be "sanguine"? I understand not everyone knows how to do it but it can be learned. I just hate to see other Vampyres suffer health problems, headaches, and extreme fatigue because they do not feed enough. Your body will suffer for it. I personally suggest learning to feed all ways to keep yourself safe. Just a suggestion. Energy is everywhere and in ever living thing; therefore you take it in when you feed regardless...


No one here is contesting that "vampires" are humans.

Good for you for being able to Psi feed and it doing something for you, bro.

Some people are "just" sanguine because they need blood like some people are "just" psi's because they need energy, and some people are "just" hybrids because they believe they get different things from each experience.  What you seem to be missing here is that for some people SANG =/= PSI.

You are subscribing to the idea that we don't know what causes the need for feeding, but you are implying by your response that ALL needs to feed are caused by energy cravings... that's hypocritical.

Psi feeding is not not dangerous if done improperly and unsafely.  I know people like to claim it is the safer method, and it shocks me when it comes from people who supposedly have experience in psionic/psychic experience.  

Humans as a whole take in energy from the environment and people around them.  By replying to you I am giving you my energy, for example.  That is not because you are feeding from me, but because it is just a part of interaction.  For some of us that does not mean when someone drinks blood, they are doing it for the energy and I'm sorry but I can't grasp how you made that connection.  No matter what, psi feeding isn't going to cure physical ailments (especially if they're caused by physical reasons).  If it does I demand documented proof, not hearsay.  

I forgot to add on the last sentence of the original post. Why must we always blame the psychic Vampyres. If you claim to be both why pick sides and blame the psy's? No one type of Vampire is too blame; that is why we have this so called "Psi-Sang war" to begin with; BLAME

Most people that feel alienated by psi's feel that way because there are those like yourself that say everyone in the community is a psi, and if they disagree with you you tell them they're uniformed, ignorant, or whatever.  I think everyone should put on their big girl panties and just accept that everyone has different opinions and not try to force them on others (I'm essentially forcing my opinions on you by telling you what they are LOL OOPS).  And yes, everyone loves to point fingers.  In the community there seems to be a lot of pots calling kettle's black.
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Bennu
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2011, 12:42:45 pm »

PS it annoys me when people revel in this toxic atmosphere.  By revel I don't mean feel passionate, but the enjoyment they get out of it is quite disturbing.
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RKCoon
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« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2011, 05:25:12 pm »

Or, how bout this -- could it be simply the fact that sangs - while not wanting to admit it and do the same drama causing that ive known a metric ton of psis do - feel that psis are simply clinging onto the notion and idea of vampirism, while potentially not even feeling the same need that sangs do?  Before anyone gets bitchy about that, THINK about what I said.
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Automotive Necromancer
paindancer
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« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2011, 05:56:57 pm »

Or, how bout this -- could it be simply the fact that sangs - while not wanting to admit it and do the same drama causing that ive known a metric ton of psis do - feel that psis are simply clinging onto the notion and idea of vampirism, while potentially not even feeling the same need that sangs do?  Before anyone gets bitchy about that, THINK about what I said.

Of course that is possible for a number of claimed sangs to feel that way, and frankly, it is probably accurate for a subset of psi claims.

Considering the hostility I have seen directed at people pushing for understanding, sometimes I wonder if there arent subsets on both sides who dont want any progress for understanding, because deep down, they know they have created a fantasy persona.  I dont blame them, really... with the effort and energy put into that self identity, it would be hard to let that go for some.
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Paindancer
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childofthespiral
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« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2011, 12:27:23 am »

Perhaps, for some people, blood =/= psi. Perhaps for a lucky few, psi can be exchanged for blood. For many of us (myself included) it cannot. I need psi energy. I need blood. Note, I didn't say 'blood energy', because if energy was all I needed, I wouldn't need blood, now would I? So no, we're not all basically psi feeders, who often choose to feed on psi energy through blood.

I'm amused at those who would say "give me hard, concrete proof, not hearsay" in reference to vampirism. The entire premise of vampirism is based in hearsay and personal experience. There isn't any evidence to prove any of this is real, and yet we continually bitch and nitpick over individual word or phrase usage, or who said what at what time, or who knows what they're talking about better than the other.

Maybe, before we start ripping each other apart, we can stop and remember that the other person is speaking from their personal experience, which has nothing to do with our own and may very well be vastly different from what we've seen and learned. "I consider myself a vampire, this has been my experience with being a vampire so far, this is what I've seen and experienced and learned, and because of those things, this is what I believe" shouldn't be used or taken to debase a similar statement from anyone else.

No wonder community membership and participation is dropping so sharply. I'm thinking about taking a break myself.
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After a long and painful absence, I am finding my way once more back to the arms of Goddess.
Bennu
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« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2011, 12:55:18 pm »

I'm amused at those who would say "give me hard, concrete proof, not hearsay" in reference to vampirism. The entire premise of vampirism is based in hearsay and personal experience. There isn't any evidence to prove any of this is real, and yet we continually bitch and nitpick over individual word or phrase usage, or who said what at what time, or who knows what they're talking about better than the other.

I'm glad I amuse you Cheesy  But quite frankly people do provide "provable" instances, where they said X did Y for me.  Such as, I don't know, "Psi feeding cured a cold for me.  A day after feeding I was better."  Or "Betty pissed me off, I drained all her energy and she collapsed to the floor because of the energy drain".  Observable instances.  TESTABLE instances.
But back to the topic on hand here, I was applying this was the claim that psi feeding fills the need of blood intake.  I feel blood craving is a physical ailment.  Treating a physical ailment of physical origins with nonphysical means is like treating a headache by giving someone a bandage on their big toe.  In short, so you think you can stop blood cravings with psi feeding for those who aren't craving the energy in it?  O RLY??
 
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paindancer
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« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2011, 02:17:37 pm »


But back to the topic on hand here, I was applying this was the claim that psi feeding fills the need of blood intake.  I feel blood craving is a physical ailment.  Treating a physical ailment of physical origins with nonphysical means is like treating a headache by giving someone a bandage on their big toe.  In short, so you think you can stop blood cravings with psi feeding for those who aren't craving the energy in it?  O RLY??
 

Are you referring to a physical response to a potentially non physical condition?

Pavlov

I guess what is the question is depends on the actual source problem.  Yes its possible blood craving may be strictly physical.

Could you explain why an energetic imbalance where the individual needs a physical medium to correct could not develop physically conditioned responses (blood cravings) when imbalanced?
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Paindancer
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deacongray
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« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2011, 03:29:03 pm »

I feel like we are going around and around in the same big circle...

If it is a Physical thing in the blood that is needed...then it is Physiological in nature. If that is the case you are no more a vampire then a Hemophiliac. This of course is not a popular thing to say  because so many Sangs want to be more vampiric for playing with the red stuff...not less because they have a physiological impairmment. So what has the common answer been? "I don't know what it is, but Blood has substance Psi doesn't!"

If it is not Physiological in nature...then it is no different then PSI feeding except that there is a physical medium to carry the non-physiological whatever it is sangs can't prove, explain or defend any better then the PSIs.

Physiological = Not a vampire. Physiological = Impaired Human.
Impaired human means a treatable future and you can run around taking healthy suppliments to take away those nasty cravings.
 ( Wow no romance or political benifit in that...quick reject it!)

So if we agree that it is Physiological in nature...then the debate is over you are not a vampire. If we agree it is NOT physiological in nature, then we can all be as mystified together and stop making proclaimations about this subject that plainly has no end, filled with many points of view, and many theories none of which are proven.



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paindancer
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« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2011, 04:00:06 pm »

Deacon!  Logic like that is very unpopular in these parts, and is extremely threatening to fantasy based egos!

No say you are sorry before you anger the native wildlife! Cheesy
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Paindancer
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Zerochan
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« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2011, 06:24:49 pm »

I never claimed to know exactly what it is in blood. I was merely stating that FOR ME it is NOT psi, as I need to psi feed, as well as take blood. Therefore, if I was taking the energy in the blood, it would be completely redundant.
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legardored
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« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2011, 08:33:29 pm »

Got one tiny comment on your thought provoking reply or commonly known as logic..
Physiological = Not a vampire. Physiological = Impaired Human.
Impaired human means a treatable future and you can run around taking healthy suppliments to take away those nasty cravings.
 ( Wow no romance or political benifit in that...quick reject it!)

If we are suffering from a condition and there is a health supplement or treatment, than that doesn't mean that its a instant good option.
The supplement might have negative side effects compared to normal blood. For example the dosage might be only effective for temporary duration (body becomes slowly inmune) It might be a higher dosage compared to blood (health risk or increased addiction) It might be expensive to procure/create. Change is rather high that if vampirisme is acknowledged as a disease/condition we  just get blood proscribed Just like some people get harddrugs proscribed.

Even if this was all proven and there were not side effects, than it doesn't mean the romance part is gone. We are people not a condition it is simple as that. The image of the vampire will hardly change because we still have the media vampyre. People who want the romantic side could still chose to do so and those who seeks benefits have always created them by themselves.

Personally I would just take blood don't care if they call us impaired or have a cure I am a stubborn person. Without this condition I would probably have been a lot less self aware and a less critical thinker. I will take the negative sides any day for those positive sides. To many mindless zombies in this world already I value my brains.

*Takes popcorn and waits for the wildlife to show up*

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deacongray
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« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2011, 10:02:46 am »

I never claimed to know exactly what it is in blood. I was merely stating that FOR ME it is NOT psi, as I need to psi feed, as well as take blood. Therefore, if I was taking the energy in the blood, it would be completely redundant.

Once more...if it is something in the blood that is Physical, then it is physiological in nature. Straight forward science... If it is not something in the blood, thus removing the substance argument which you HAVE to do to remain vampiric and not just an Impaired Human, then you are at the exact same question as the PSI vampires...What is it exactly? The Answer...we don't know. This is the same answer for all of us. So Screaming Sang is Not PSI is irrealivant and unproven.

Why are people are going off? Because we cover this same topic every 3 months when some "More mature then my years" or "I have been around but not active" individual comes and and starts up the same old debates that were logically concluded 30 years ago.

Zerochan you mistake me and I believe many of us if you think we do not see you intelligence and potential. We do see it, we are happy to see it. We just hope you will do something with it. Contact Mert or someone who is doing projects and see what you can do to help...give up on this,,,redudancy
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darkrose
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WWW
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2011, 03:48:29 pm »

Wow! It never used to matter in the VC/OVC, what method you chose to use, to "feed" your vampiric needs. It only mattered that people had the "need" and it needed to be fulfilled. What was important, is that you used common sense and didn't hurt anyone in the process of fulfilling your needs. What was important, was learning all the different methods ( to safely feed as well as learning methods that could be the most advantageous for the vampire), that through personal experiences, people were able to share with the community. We are all in the same boat, more or less.

This sang/psi war, is really pathetic. I don't personally, think that it really exists, in real life. Not, in my experiences anyways. 

So, for me, the question is not how you choose to feed and why you feel that you need to feed that way, because, it really makes no difference. Except, apparently for a few, who can't see the larger picture concerning the community (thanks Nadia, for pointing that out to me.)

So, where do we go from here? What is the next step that we, as a community, should be looking towards?
Really, what are the issues that truly are effecting us? What kinds of information should we be sharing with each other, so that we can better educate ourselves and in the process, help the community evolve, into the type of community we, or should I just say-"I",would hope that we would like for it to become?

So, if some people could put the posturing aside, what are the communities current real issues? I'm asking in earnest, because of being absent from the OVC for the last few years, I really don't know what the current issues are. I have perused the forum and all it's many different subjects. For the most part, aside from what seems like a select few individuals,who actually make intelligent and educational posts,most of the posts are only made to further fuel  problems that only exist in the minds of those playing at some kind of vampire game, or are made by cyber bullies, who's only course of action, seems to be to induce excessive, unneeded (because due to what we are, drama seems to be par for the course, for some)extra with whip cream and a cherry on top,drama.

What would be a helpful subject, what would help in understanding our nature's in order to be the best vampires we can be ? Of course, I am assuming, that people want to be the best that they can be. Perhaps, some people don't mind stagnation. However, I tend to think, that is not true for the majority of the community.

Any suggestions?
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Enjoy the Dark Pleasures
paindancer
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« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2011, 06:52:49 pm »

What are the community issues?

That is a extremely complex answer, I would think, simply because of the massive influx of people identifying via media exposure.  Valid or not, the resultant goals may be widespread, and likely part of the personality disorder of the community as a whole.

I have seen the topics of public awareness come up, since the very first twilight gathering.  PR is always a big factor.  But, when someone decides to put themselves under the limelight, they are invariably attacked for doing so.  Of course, the media rarely wants to focus on normal, functional vamps, instead looking to give airtime to the biggest circus freak they can find, so unfortunately, good ideas like a vampire sponsored blood drive for the red cross are shelved, while folks like JS take the stage.   (hmmmm... I wonder.. I should talk to the folks who put on Bats Day at Disneyland about a drive...)

Learning is allways good, but I think its very difficult for many to say what actually is, as much is still grasping in the dark.  From a sociology perspective, some progress can, and is, being made, and I think that should continued to be shared.  From a actual mechanics perspective, the best we can do is share ideas and help one another from getting too far out into the depths of crazy perhaps.  It gets difficult, as egos and theories are so often intertwined.

Yes, for some, it will always be just a drama-fest.  Energy feeders, after all.

Maybe, much of this community is based on looking for answers.  The same factors keep coming up however, there is a limited knowledge base after all.  Perhaps people just get bored and figure a good civil war is just the fix.

Personally, I am looking forward to the next round of testing which may be in the works.  Even if it may offer very little for me personally, but who knows.

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Paindancer
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deacongray
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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2011, 11:55:38 am »

It is the struggle to understand our nature that leads to the feeding questions. Feeding questions aren't a bad thing. We look to a lot of things to try to understand our nature. Spiritualism, Philosophy, Science, hell even mundane health issues.

While at times we do need people who will keep us from wandering off into the fantastic, most of the drama comes from those who want to make noise by challengeing everyone else, even though they themselves have no answers. My view is we need to encourage personal exploration, and discourage all the drama and nay sayers
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