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Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]  |  Vampires & Vampirism  |  Vampire Community & Subcultural Discussion (Moderators: Merticus, SoulSplat, Eclecta, Maloryn, Zero)  |  03.16.11 - Blood Is Not Psi! - Zerochan 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 03.16.11 - Blood Is Not Psi! - Zerochan  (Read 24539 times)
Zerochan
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« on: March 16, 2011, 11:46:09 am »

Blood is not Psi
by Zerochan Mach 16, 2011

It is the opinion of many in the vampire community that sanguinarians are simply a specialized form of psychic vampire. This opinion has caused much derision and argument within the community. However, psychic vampires do not drink blood. They do not need blood, and therefore are not qualified to tell sanguinarians what they need.

I myself am a hybrid vampire. This means I need BOTH blood and energy. Now, if we were all taking the energy from blood, why would I still need to consume it? I CAN psi feed, as I need to. I have TRIED taking energy directly from blood. None of that replaces blood! Nor will it ever!

Many sanguinarians ALSO know how to psi feed, AND draw blood essence. That does not sustain them. Yes, blood does contain large amounts of energy, but I know myself that it is not what sangs, or hybrids are after. The evidence of there being "too small an amount" to have significant effect if it weren't energy is a moot point. Many substances can even KILL in smaller amounts than the amount of blood sangs and hybrids are known to drink.

As with energy, we at this time have no way to measure what it is we crave in the blood. Perhaps we never will. But as with energy, that does not mean that the bloodlust felt by sangs and hybrids is not real. We are all vampires in our nature, but we are not the same. Nor will we ever be.

Sanguinarians will not speak of energy needs, as they do not experience it. The psychic vampire purporting this misinformation need to learn to show the same respect.

That's just my opinion on the matter.
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childofthespiral
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 01:23:08 pm »

I agree, 100%, particularly with the last few sentences.

We can never truly understand an experience unless we have experienced it, and we can never dismiss an experience simply because we haven't experienced it. Strict sangs have no more right to dismiss psi claims any more than psis have to dismiss sang claims.
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deacongray
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 01:57:25 pm »


 It is indeed the opinion of many in the Vampire community that Blood feeding has a Energy Psi aspect to it. This has indeed caused some issues. Here is where I have an issue. It is not just PSIs that believe this  way. Many Sangs and Hybreds do as well. Many Psi and Hybreds also feel  it the blood itself and has nothing to do with Energy. Imagin that...Sangs and Psis might be on both sides of the debate...

This is not a Sang V Psi debate and everyone who is trying to Frame it as such it just looking for a drama in my opinion. People across all walks of life in this community believe different things. Trying to Draw battle lines between Psi and Sang is rediculous. So in my view here is what it comes down to. People have different Opinions, No one has any facts, so the drama mongers need to pull their panties out of their cracks and stop with the minority victim crap and look at real issues. I swear some people just WANT to be victims for a cause for the sake of attention.

I mean seriously these are all theories presented and held by people both sang and psi for consideration. NOTHING is proven. Some Sangs are going to reject the Blood Energy idea, some have embraced it. Just because some of the louder people in the community get miffed everytime someone else says something that they do not agree with, does not make their theory any more valid.

If you guys really want the Drama to stop...stop wit the drama. Accept we have differences and stop trying to FORCE people to agree with your theory with peer pressure and admonishmens. Until you can Prove something...you have no more right to admonish anyone, on this subject then does anyone else.

Deacon Gray

 

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deacongray
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 02:01:14 pm »

Oh yeah I forgot ( Disclaimer: "These are the expressed opinions of Deacon Gray and do not represent anyone else. These opinions are not aimed at anyone directly, instead speak to each one of us, asking as individuals that you look inside yourself."
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ariesffa1500
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 02:45:42 pm »

It is my opinion as a hybrid that there is energy in the blood that we as sangs and hybrids can draw on, but for reasons unknown to us at this time we are unable to sustain ourselves from pure energy withdrawal and transfer. I know how to feed psi but my ability to do so is extremely limited. Just my thoughts on the matter.
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legardored
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 03:57:19 pm »

I know that I probably need blood because without it my health declines as well as my overall energy level. Does this mean there is a energy in the blood, it could be but I can't prove it. As someone who experience this I do not care if its energy, if its a substance or if its just in my head I just need it. I feel sad for any person who tells another what he she is experiencing and formulates it as truth. They are just trying to convince themselves or in desperate need of a ego boost. Is this than a subject that does not deserve attention ? Certainly not but the goals are just plain wrong it should be about explaining and not about who is right or wrong.

But I do not get the other half of the problem either. The people who keep going on and on about this when there goal is to make it stop.
If this was the first time the subject was being discussed its understandable but it feels more like anual political debates than anything else. And frankly I stopped caring about the votes.

Take the fuel away from a fire and it will die down, but I am getting the personal impression some rather not see the fire die from both sides. Maybe they are just accustomed to the warm feeling of it. This is my personal last response on this kind of debate because fuel is expensive and its not worth this fire.

PS
Deacon I love the sarcastic disclaimer part. Makes you wonder if it could cause another fire.


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childofthespiral
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 04:31:40 pm »

I think too that we're all trying to figure out the how's and why's of being vampiric with no proof of validity except personal experience. Because we have no proof, it's easy to discredit other people and some people feel threatened by anothers' experience or description and feel they have to shout them down. It then becomes a "you slap me, I slap you" contest that doesn't get anyone anywhere.
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Mistress Mikyla
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 05:12:49 pm »

It is exactly as Deacon has said, not so much as Zero has said.

There are many who feed via blood, but feel they are doing so only for the energy within the blood, not for that elusive "other".

Again, I agree with Deacon - if you want the drama to stop, then stop being the drama.
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the pink lady
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 05:16:42 pm »

It is the opinion of many in the vampire community

I read this sentence and stopped giving a fuck. For the love of G-d, Zerochan, either name sources or stop making generalized statements about the vampire community. I would tolerate them from anyone with demonstrated experience with the community and its workings but NOT from a (self admitted!) 16-year-old who still lives with her parents. Christ.
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Lillith Darkwraith
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2011, 06:37:48 pm »

Your opinions are like your asshole, shit comes through it. The Vampire Community is made up of all sorts of people, some who hematophage to others that work energy primarily and those in the middle. No one in this community is greater or smaller than you and neither are you greater or smaller then them. There is no need to start a fight about who or what kind of energy a Vampire needs to survive because everyone is different.
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Zerochan
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 07:41:56 pm »

Opinions are like assholes, and every community has them, as you have shown. As for differences, I have never denied them, in fact, I embrace them.

Also, Pink lady, do you HONESTLY expect me to reference every instance in which it was claimed we all suck energy? That's a bit of a tall order, don't you think? Furthermore, my age has nothing to do with this. Make your opinions of people based on actions, not how many times we've ridden this dirtball around the sun. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less about what you think of me. If you have the right to voice your opinion, then so do I; and that's all I did here.
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the pink lady
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 09:29:03 pm »

Also, Pink lady, do you HONESTLY expect me to reference every instance in which it was claimed we all suck energy? That's a bit of a tall order, don't you think?

You could point the camera on yourself and state what you believe, or reference a specific instance of someone claiming to need energy. I'm disinclined to read anything that begins with the author speaking on the behalf of an unidentified mass of people.

Quote
Furthermore, my age has nothing to do with this.

Your age has everything to do with it. I was about your age when I joined the elist that I now moderate. I've read several of my old posts and I've always noticed how I changed my stance on things every week, and yes, I was an unlikable little fuck back then too. Some things don't change. I make a point to mention your age because your opinions will change with age and experience. (That and you seem to be proud of your youth and ability to tell it like it really is, two hilariously incongruous stances.)

Quote
Make your opinions of people based on actions, not how many times we've ridden this dirtball around the sun.

So, let's recap. You were interviewed by a writer for Associated Content, you wrote an aforementioned rant stating the obvious to those who knew and didn't care, you wrote a group manifesto as an individual, you got together with four other people to write a vision statement, you wrote an open-ended treatise concerning coming-out, and finally, you give another obvious statement to the same audience who heard your earlier rant, and again, they don't care. You belong to a few well-known vampire watering holes and are infatuated with the sound of your own voice. Congratulations, you're exactly like how I was at 16. Have a cookie.

If you're so gung-ho on lecturing people on a topic, why not focus on your own experience and attempt to relate that? True, it would mean using scary first-person pronouns rather than the oblique safety of third-person ones, but this way you'd be contributing to the greater body of knowledge than repeating old, worn out bits.
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Octarine Valur
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2011, 02:09:39 am »

My two cents worth... This has been a topic of debate. Good one, Zerochan Wink

Only thing is, from personal experience I know what effects I get from blood that I don't get from feeding off elemental energy. I don't get the same effects from dead blood or raw meats that have been refrigerated or partly cooked etc, in fact I might as well be drinking water or eating salad.

Logic tells me that when I sang feed, I get what I need from LIVING blood, and that dead blood is useless to me, or at best a placebo. Now if you compare living blood with fresh dead blood, the contents are the same, the same calories and nutrients etc - but the only thing missing is the life in the blood - and the life in the blood is also known among us as prana, energy, chi, ki etc, etc. Since dead blood has no life to it, I have to assume that it is the life in the blood that makes the difference when I feed, and therefore the life is what I need when I feed, and the life/energy/prana - whatever you want to call it - that satisfies.

Of course, as I said, this is my experience and my view of things. I am not expecting everyone to agree with me Wink although that would be nice.

What are the effects other sangs feel from eating processed raw meat or drinking stored blood that is not still alive? Remember blood can survive for a few hours after leaving the body if prevented from coagulating. Most vamps will claim there is nothing they can substitute blood with in terms of supplements, vitamins or minerals etc... so what do they think they need from it?

The odd thing is that certain groups in the VC have decided to classify vamps according to how they satisfy their needs, call it energy needs, or feeding. In one particular group I am classified as an "energy vampire" because I state I feed off the energy in blood (and elemental energy) - even tho I feel I am a sanguine vampire who has learned to energy feed in order to survive. in either case I don't give a rat's ass how they choose to classify me - I'm still a vampire, and as a good friend of mine says - "they can't take back my 'vampire' membership card". Tongue

Also, the tendency to compete or derogate each other over differences of opinion or feeding methods indicates a lack of mutual respect in some circles - something I agree with Zerochan on - has to be remedied in the long term. A little respect goes a long way.
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Bennu
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2011, 07:27:30 am »

Hey, it is true that we don't know for sure what causes what in terms of craving.  << that fact is embraced by the community
OMG IT'S PSI BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER EXPLANATION << Frequently follows the fact

If you're going to admit that there's no known reason, then don't make the psi claim.  It's like saying "Hey, I really don't know why the sky is blue, but I'm going to say it's blue because of Anthocyanin because I know that's how flowers work!"  If it's true to you, awesome, but it's not true for everyone obviously.

It is the opinion of many in the vampire community

I read this sentence and stopped giving a fuck. For the love of G-d, Zerochan, either name sources or stop making generalized statements about the vampire community. I would tolerate them from anyone with demonstrated experience with the community and its workings but NOT from a (self admitted!) 16-year-old who still lives with her parents. Christ.

Blood = Psi is community rhetoric now.  It's pretty much everywhere.  Any time anyone goes on TV (ANYONE, from our "humble" "spokesvamps" to those not making their living off of their "condition"), that's how they explain sanguinarians.  If I actually had time I'd list websites, but I'm pressed for time.  Michelle Belanger, makes the claim in a variety of places.  Todd Hoyt and Don Henrie, even though best ignored IMHO, they have been on national television making these claims.  I think House Aset Ka says similar things, as well as Temple of Set and House Maidenfear (or how ever it's spelled), but please correct me if I'm wrong

Also, why is Zerochan's age only an issue when she says things that people disagree with?  People were all about her community unity post if I remember correctly, but since she's deviating from the party line, her age is suddenly an issue?  WTF.
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Cheri
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2011, 09:23:58 am »



Logic tells me that when I sang feed, I get what I need from LIVING blood, and that dead blood is useless to me, or at best a placebo. Now if you compare living blood with fresh dead blood, the contents are the same, the same calories and nutrients etc - but the only thing missing is the life in the blood - and the life in the blood is also known among us as prana, energy, chi, ki etc, etc. Since dead blood has no life to it, I have to assume that it is the life in the blood that makes the difference when I feed, and therefore the life is what I need when I feed, and the life/energy/prana - whatever you want to call it - that satisfies.


While I am not disagreeing with you Val, I feel it should be mentioned that some nutrients do loose their usefulness very quickly when not in their raw or fresh form. I would have to go look them up to get examples and I am not at home at the moment.

I personally have no idea what it is that vampires need from blood. My observations as a donor have shown me that each vampire is different, what one takes from me is not always going to be the same as what another uses. They all do things slightly different and this is fine Smiley.

If anyone is interested in those examples of nutrients just let me know, I will drag the books out when I get home for them.
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