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Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]  |  Vampires & Vampirism  |  Vampire Community & Subcultural Discussion (Moderators: Merticus, SoulSplat, Eclecta, Maloryn, Zero)  |  01.06.11 - An Open Letter To The Vampire Community - Zerochan 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 01.06.11 - An Open Letter To The Vampire Community - Zerochan  (Read 25025 times)
Catori
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« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2011, 06:16:15 pm »

I guess not many have fought certain laws from coming into play all over the US and can see a difference. The diseases mentioned are that. Diseases. Yes people got hysterical about AIDS. Though they were more terrified of catching it. Same with STDS as they came out. They were not in fear so much though of what they saw as monsters. Thus far vampires have been painted as child stealing(from the kidnappings and all the kids running away to be with someone on anything possibly vampire related), cult followers, blood drinking wackos, murderers, and as those who would kidnap adults to drink their blood or attack someone some where to drink their blood. All in all, we are viewed as monsters. Throwing a disease label on us is not going to do much to help. It will solidify that there are those who do indeed need to drink human blood and make people even more fearful of anythign that they might perceive as a vampire a deadly monster amongst them. Not someone who has some disease causing them to have a need for human blood. They will scream that the human populace at large is in danger and all of them must have something done to them. Such as forcing the cure on everyone. How about forcing those who refuse a cure into an assylum...that was REALLY popular way back when with those with depression or mental disabilities. Why would it be different now with a group of people the media has painted the picture of being dangerous to others? No matter what we do, the media will put out what will sell and obtain viewers and nice vampires suffering because of a condition or disease is NOT going to be it. We already have cases of people loosing jobs and children and spouses because of vampirism, do you really think this is going to change now that vampires are monsters amongst innocent helpless god fearing people by going so public with it? You are deluding yourselves and giving the human populace far too much credit in the logical and rational thought processes.

Where as CJ here can do nothing but rant about how others are making hysterical rants and are insane while not backing anything up with experience or with real world happenings. The only thing she is able to do is run about the forum patting herself on the back for causing dissention and splitting everyone up here and causing fighting as she herself stated was her sole reason for even coming here to post. Meanwhile doing her best chasing a pipe dream based in nothing realistic when taking into account how the real world seems to work. While stating she is trying to make an attempt to cure herself of something she absolutely despises. You know, sounding more and more insane and more and more of nothing better than a shit stirrer like the likes of SW. Wow, you really are one to open your pie hole about others anywhere. -snkr
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RKCoon
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« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2011, 12:53:21 am »

This warranted further attention...

Quote
Using her logic one shouldn't seek treatment for depression, AIDS, STDs and any other disease which may have some stigma to it just because the evil government will use it against you.

Considering that it is YOU, CJ, along with a few others here that is making the claim that vampirism is a disease to be cured, your comment rings hollow. Secondly, history has long shown that if the government of the time wishes to persecute a group, it WILL, and helping them makes it worse for the individual. the jews found this out in the thirties and fourties, the natives found that out before hand, and so on.   Further, as Nadia said, drinking blood, while taboo in western cultures (thanx, right wing religions) has been around since the dawn of time in many various tribes and so forth.

While I am in favor of a group by and for sanguines, to avoid the psi nonsense, I will also state it has to be done in such a way that doenst set us up to be raked over the coals; by the governments, the people, and fringe groups as well.

Finally, where do you get this notion that Nadia is calling for unity?
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paindancer
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« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2011, 09:39:18 am »

For the record, a physical defficancy, that requires an external remedy for the body to operate normally would be by medical terms a disease.  Koon, you may not like the terminology but that Is what is described when you talk about a pure sang theory.

I think that this may represent a fraction of the sang community, but not all if it.. with a non physical component factoring in.  (a few drops if blood lost should not cause fatigue and ghost limb pain, but that is the effect when I try to donate to my sang wife) .

Thus is not a black and white issue... but shades of grey.  Certainty the disease model would not apply to every sang.
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Paindancer
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Zerochan
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« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2011, 11:19:16 am »

To me, there are two explanations that make sense. Genetics, or possibly in some cases metaphysics. You can't cure either one of those. If it's genetic, which it likely is, the most you can do is life long, and often painful treatments. Personally, I'd rather feed. I know that works, and there's no nasty chemical side effects.

Also, my letter called for an end to the bickering, and was not inspired by CJ! and her rant that was really nothing more than stirring the pot. This had actually been stewing in my brain for quite some time.
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Darklilone
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« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2011, 06:49:15 pm »

To me, there are two explanations that make sense. Genetics, or possibly in some cases metaphysics. You can't cure either one of those. If it's genetic, which it likely is, the most you can do is life long, and often painful treatments. Personally, I'd rather feed. I know that works, and there's no nasty chemical side effects.
If it does happen to be the case, then i can agree with you there, and am sure many can.
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RKCoon
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« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2011, 09:50:25 pm »

For the record, a physical defficancy, that requires an external remedy for the body to operate normally would be by medical terms a disease.  Koon, you may not like the terminology but that Is what is described when you talk about a pure sang theory.

I think that this may represent a fraction of the sang community, but not all if it.. with a non physical component factoring in.  (a few drops if blood lost should not cause fatigue and ghost limb pain, but that is the effect when I try to donate to my sang wife) .

Thus is not a black and white issue... but shades of grey.  Certainty the disease model would not apply to every sang.

By that logic, those that are short are diseased, those that are amputees are diseased, and so on. In practice, however, this is not considered the case, as in practice, what consitutes a disease is either a biological parasite of some kind or a genetic issue. beyond that, other issues are dealt with separately. So, again, wrong.
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Dantess
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« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2011, 11:11:48 pm »

I'm sorry I read came on here late but yea like everyone said I aggree 100% myself also, this is reality not fiction we need to get along and stop jumping on others because of how they feed or not feed. I hope you meet some good vampires in your travel.
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Darklilone
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« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2011, 09:09:01 am »

For the record, a physical defficancy, that requires an external remedy for the body to operate normally would be by medical terms a disease.  Koon, you may not like the terminology but that Is what is described when you talk about a pure sang theory.

I think that this may represent a fraction of the sang community, but not all if it.. with a non physical component factoring in.  (a few drops if blood lost should not cause fatigue and ghost limb pain, but that is the effect when I try to donate to my sang wife) .

Thus is not a black and white issue... but shades of grey.  Certainty the disease model would not apply to every sang.

By that logic, those that are short are diseased, those that are amputees are diseased, and so on. In practice, however, this is not considered the case, as in practice, what consitutes a disease is either a biological parasite of some kind or a genetic issue. beyond that, other issues are dealt with separately. So, again, wrong.

Thought this might help:
dis·ease

–noun
1.
a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.

World English Dictionary
disease
 
— n
1.    any impairment of normal physiological function affecting all or part of an organism, esp a specific pathological change caused by infection, stress, etc, producing characteristic symptoms; illness or sickness in general

Word Origin & History

disease
early 14c., "discomfort," from O.Fr. desaise , from des-  "without, away" (see dis-) + aise  "ease" (see ease). Sense of "sickness, illness" first recorded late 14c.; the word still sometimes was used in its lit. sense early 17c. Related: Diseased .

-Dictionary.com
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Darklilone
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« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2011, 09:14:14 am »

1.
a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
For psis, it is believed that their body's energetic system is impaired or malfunctioning. I would assume, unless you believe in spiritual genetics/inheritance that this might fall under nutritional deficiency or imbalance (in a sense [not physically]).

Sanguinarism (sp?) could also fall under the definition of disease, though being potentially more physical, there is chance of more pointing to it as being a physical disease.
 

Though i, personally, am still gonna be stuck on calling it/both a "condition" rather than a disease.
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RKCoon
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« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2011, 09:42:49 am »

I am aware that is the technical definition, darklilone, but in practice, as i said, people with non degenerative issues (ie, their amputated stump wont get shorter, they wont grow taller, etc) are not considered diseased, and although it is a condition to be managed, it, generally, cant up and make them worse/kill them.  Trying to push vampirism, particularly sanguine vamprism, as a disease, only reflects what I hinted at in several topics - the will by psis to not acknowledge what they may be, and more over, the will to marginalize sangs as much as possible.
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deacongray
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« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2011, 11:36:10 am »

I don't see most Psis as being involved in some attempted to undermine the Sangs. Is there a lot of confusion...most certainly. PSIS don't claim, my in large, totally understand the manner in which they feed, which is why there are so many catagories and lables. Some Sangs have basically said that PSIS are pretty much all fakes because ot this lack of certainty or proof. So the question comes, automatically...ok so what is the sangs are feeding from?

We get, as expected, different answers. Some sangs tell us it is physical, biological, or physiological in nature. So the question that pops to most minds would be...well what is it? If it is something along those lines, it can be treated once identified. Of course some sangs really do not like that idea, because it that is true, then any claim to being a Vampire in any aspect would be as rediculous as claiming to be a vampire simply because one has anemia. So then we are told, you horrid PSIS, it is not that simple, if you would stop role playing you could see we are clearly real vampires with a real need for blood. So the question then follows, well what is it in the blood that is NOT Physiological in nature in the blood that you  need. Basically we get the same answer we get from PSIS...I don't know.

For me it comes down to two things. Either it IS physiological in nature and thus treatable if the property in question is found, or it is not physiological in nature which puts it on the same footing as Psis.  Which is only a question at all because we keep hearing how PSIS are so horrid picking on the sangs who can't seem to decide what the hell they are talking about, and are mad at the PSIS for being no more clear on the subject.

Maybe I am wrong but if so...tell me the other choices, and agree on somthing other then just getting miffed that the PSIS seem just as confused as the Sangs.
The only thing that seems clear is that for some reason some Sangs and some PSIS want to ensure there is Drama and fighting, over a subject that neither seems to have a grasp on.
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paindancer
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« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2011, 02:07:42 pm »

Well put, Grey.

From an eastern medicine perspective, many psis fall into the category of having a disease as well. 

Western medicine lends to strictly the physical in general.  A pure physical, cause and remidy, as described by some sang theory, would fall well into a category classified as a medical condition or disease.  Nothing derogotory ever was meant to pure physical sangs... its just speaking in the language of what actually may be able to come up with some answers. 
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Paindancer
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K. Muraki
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« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2011, 01:34:32 pm »

I've often thought of vampirism as a sort of psychic Type I Diabetes: the person's spirit does not, for whatever reason, produce enough energy, just as a the body of a person with Type I Diabetes does not produce enough insulin or any at all. The manner of how a vamp gets their "spirit insulin", as it were, is nobody's business, as long as they aren't taking from unwilling donors. It's like arguing over whether a diabetic person should take their insulin via injections or a patch on their skin or an insulin pump.

I'm getting tired of the flouncy fits and fang-measuring contests. It doesn't do anyone any good and it doesn't reflect well on us to the mundanes. It's one reason that I haven't been visiting the site much lately. In fact, it's making me embarrassed to be consider myself a vampire at all.
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Oblivionburns
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« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2011, 11:34:49 pm »

I've often wondered if it would be possible or even likely that vampires could form triangle relationships such as:
1.  Sang feeds from Donor
2.  Donor spends time with PV replenisher for healing
3.  PV feeds from happy Sang
Round & round we go...?
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Shadow hide you, moon watch over you, night cloak you, peace keep you.
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