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Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]  |  Vampires & Vampirism  |  Vampire Community & Subcultural Discussion (Moderators: Merticus, SoulSplat, Eclecta, Maloryn, Zero)  |  01.06.11 - An Open Letter To The Vampire Community - Zerochan 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 01.06.11 - An Open Letter To The Vampire Community - Zerochan  (Read 25032 times)
Oblivionburns
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2011, 10:41:46 pm »

I don't really see the Open Letter as a rant, it's more like a welcome call to arms!  Let's remember we're all in this together, right?  Let us not forget the grace of our donors, the healing that happens in our exchanges, or the importance of truly OWNING our conditions!  Sang or Psi, it matters not.  I think if we teamed up a bit more IRL we could effect some astounding occurrances!  Better the neigborhood by scaring away lurkers, not allowing your place to live to be an easy target, right?  People get freaked when ya melt out of the shadows & beat them at their own game, I've seen it!  Let's patch up & do something good!  No more war!
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Shadow hide you, moon watch over you, night cloak you, peace keep you.
RKCoon
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2011, 11:36:57 pm »

.....Wow. someone ODed on optimism there.  Unfortunately, sangs and psis have a deep gulf, and i dont see it being bridged anytime soon.
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Automotive Necromancer
NyteMuse
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« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2011, 12:42:16 am »

.....Wow. someone ODed on optimism there.  Unfortunately, sangs and psis have a deep gulf, and i dont see it being bridged anytime soon.

Sadly, I agree. At least, not on a global scale...individually, maybe some bridges can be built one-on-one, but the problem with these rants/letters is that generally the people who really need to see them (i.e. the ones actually making the statements) don't.
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Kasada
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2011, 12:58:17 am »

Zerochan - I would really, really love permission to use / repost this, as I'm not sure I could have said it better.  May I?

Rubicúnda - That's one good translator.

NightShade - If all else fails, I'll be there to talk if you want.  Just be careful with what you read - Bellanger's stuff only applies to one extremely small (and in my opinion, utterly foolhardy) subset of vampires.  Because of that, most of what she writes isn't something worth taking seriously (unless you're Kheprian, and in that case, I sadly withdraw my offer of support).
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May you find a twist in your road.
Oblivionburns
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2011, 02:01:04 am »

Okay, maybe I did wax a bit overly enthusiastic.  Seems to me that there are a lot of stick-in-the-muds here ("We are TOO different, dammit!").  Be that as it may, I can understand the disenchantment of people who are just trying to understand how to go about being what they are.  This seems to beg the question, "What AM I?" & pigeonholing, labeling & the like only constrict our potential.  If it helps, I admit I started out as a sang, & for obvious reasons (the trouble with feeding at the age of 12) spent a good part of my high school years being sick with doctors unable to help.  My mother was very big on meditation & the astral world, so I learned a lot about the nature of energy.  When I discovered I could in fact heal myself by "stealing" energy from others, what a revelation!  Now I occasionally take blood from my willing husband, but it's not something I need to do.  His energy works very well.  If I want to avoid the insomnia, hunger, aches, pains & general misery, muddled thinking & chronic lethargy that's what I need to do.  What I don't understand is why there's such a huge rift between Sang & Psi.  Can someone please help me out here?  I, for one, have never considered myself the superior of anyone else (with the exception of the Mundanes).  Why would anybody?
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Shadow hide you, moon watch over you, night cloak you, peace keep you.
starbuck
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2011, 04:21:42 am »

Zerochan well said and about time! I really hope to hear more people voice views like this. It's what the VC needs a good kick in the ass and a wake up call if we can't stand together and work as a group no one will take us seriously.
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Zerochan
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2011, 08:22:20 am »

Zerochan - I would really, really love permission to use / repost this, as I'm not sure I could have said it better.  May I?

Rubicúnda - That's one good translator.

NightShade - If all else fails, I'll be there to talk if you want.  Just be careful with what you read - Bellanger's stuff only applies to one extremely small (and in my opinion, utterly foolhardy) subset of vampires.  Because of that, most of what she writes isn't something worth taking seriously (unless you're Kheprian, and in that case, I sadly withdraw my offer of support).

Anyone's welcome to repost this. =D Go right ahead. Smiley
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Cheri
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2011, 09:38:30 am »

  Can someone please help me out here?  I, for one, have never considered myself the superior of anyone else (with the exception of the Mundanes).  Why would anybody?

Sorry, but I have to ask this question. As one of "the Mundanes" in this community, I would seriously love to hear how you are superior to me. You talk about how we all need to get along and everyone in the community could learn from Zerochan's letter, then you go and say that. This is part of why this "gulf" as RK called it  is not going to heal anytime soon, to many people acting or feeling superior to another, and then calling for "unity", equality, or "can't we all just get along", it only makes it wider.

Not trying to start a fight here, just truly feel that that statement is the type of thing that causes harm to the community.
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Oblivionburns
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2011, 07:20:05 pm »

My apologies, Cheri.  As a donor I don't consider you a Mundane.  I consider those who ignore the VC completely to be Mundane.  A thousand pardons!  Perhaps my definition of "mundane" is not the generally accepted one.  I guess if I knew how to strike out that part of my statement, I would.  Donors are the farthest from mundane that could possibly be imagined!
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Shadow hide you, moon watch over you, night cloak you, peace keep you.
Cheri
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2011, 08:19:48 pm »

No need to apologise .Sorry if I came acrossed as snappy about that Oblivion,  I truly am trying to understand the idea of how a vampire is  superior to any other human. I could have worded my  reply less personally. I see vampires as people, simply people with a need, not unlike many other people that have needs. I understand that some vampires feel it is a spirtual thing, and others feel they are superior beings(the entire top of the food chain thing). I seriously would like to know how you feel a vampire is superior to any other human, you personally. It helps me in my understanding of how people think.

It is not just the differences in sang,psi and hybrid causing this discord in the community. Some of it is caused by the mind set that puts of one group of humans being "better then" another.
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CJ!
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« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2011, 12:46:48 am »

I feel some quotes of the thread featuring my treatise are very appropriate in this rather emotional and faithful call to unity.

Quote
Unfortunately science won't touch us sanguinarians either given the status quo. The sad thing is that we CAN'T all work together. Psis and hybrids are outside the paramaters of modern science since psi/chi/prana are intangible. My biggest fear is that if sanguinarians maintain their ties to the greater vampire community that we will be dismissed under the same grounds. The reason I posted the AIDS activist example was to demonstrate that access of knowledge is a political process. We, mostly by our own design, left ourselves no room for error. I am being black and white because I have to be. The slightest tint of grey and the gatekeepers will shut us out. Why be in the fringes when you don't have to be?

Quote
In short mainstream and to a certain extent scientific studies are sensational because we are sensational. We are the ones perpetuating the stereotypes. For example if one took a look at the roster of members at places like lesvampires and the VVC don’t most of them aesthetically and in terms of beliefs professed appear that they fit right into the South Park gym bleacher vampire clique? The little progress the community has made was through very unsensational approaches. What got Joseph Laycock interested in the community were not our beliefs and gothy flair but the fact that a group commonly dismissed as a new religious movement actually initiated a survey to find out demographically who we really are. This is a social science example of the team effort that I am advocating. The reason Ryan Dube turned around was the quality of reasoned and grounded replies from those within the community. Judging by the transcripts he offers sympathy to the idea that what we describe as vampirism could be some sort of physical or psychological ailment explained by science; an unsensational reason. None of these efforts sparked some mass media extravaganza; our privacy is still intact. I just want to get in the position where those interested in investigating the world of “real vampires” and by extension sanguinarians to find as little reason for sensationalism as possible and thus much reason to initiate further inquiry.

To be succinct unity is not in my interest and it is my opinion that it shouldn't be of interest to any sanguinarian that takes their sanguinarianism seriously.
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RKCoon
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« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2011, 01:29:40 am »

To be rather candid, CJ, you are also on record here as not wanting to be sanguine, either, so I personally find it rather difficult to put much stock into what you say.  Most of us accept what we are for what we are, and use it to better our lives -- not consider it a hindrance or disability.
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Automotive Necromancer
CJ!
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« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2011, 02:16:23 am »

To be rather candid, CJ, you are also on record here as not wanting to be sanguine, either, so I personally find it rather difficult to put much stock into what you say.  Most of us accept what we are for what we are, and use it to better our lives -- not consider it a hindrance or disability.

There is absolutely no proof that sanguinarianism is a fixed state. There is no empirical data for ANYTHING in the "real vampire" community. That is why I find it very premature to conduct ourselves as an identity group when we know very little of ourselves.

I speculate that a major reason why so many people within this community reacted so emotionally to my treatise is that my proposal is a visceral attack on the vampire as well as sanguinarian identity. Opening oneself to scientific scrutiny and obtaining empirical facts behind sanguinarianism will leave less room for anyone who identifies as vampiric, with all due respect to Sarah McLachlan, to build a mystery.

Which leads to why Zerochan's letter was appealing to many: it was basically glurge which celebrated the vampire identity by appealing to how mine and SapphoWolf's interview made them feel as opposed to the actual content of the pieces. Misrepresenting the situation as battle for who the "true vampires" are affirms vampire identity in the minds of many of the readers who were shaken by the treatise.
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SangSavvy
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Love is Always Fate's decision.


« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2011, 03:50:09 am »

Misrepresenting this or any community as one in which you can see fit to foist sides onto everyone who participates in it affirms that you, CJ, are pompous, and rude.  No matter how many song lyrics you attempt to cleverly weave into your posts. 

I also agree completely with RK's statement. 
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Zerochan
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« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2011, 08:48:59 am »

To be rather candid, CJ, you are also on record here as not wanting to be sanguine, either, so I personally find it rather difficult to put much stock into what you say.  Most of us accept what we are for what we are, and use it to better our lives -- not consider it a hindrance or disability.

There is absolutely no proof that sanguinarianism is a fixed state. There is no empirical data for ANYTHING in the "real vampire" community. That is why I find it very premature to conduct ourselves as an identity group when we know very little of ourselves.

I speculate that a major reason why so many people within this community reacted so emotionally to my treatise is that my proposal is a visceral attack on the vampire as well as sanguinarian identity. Opening oneself to scientific scrutiny and obtaining empirical facts behind sanguinarianism will leave less room for anyone who identifies as vampiric, with all due respect to Sarah McLachlan, to build a mystery.

Which leads to why Zerochan's letter was appealing to many: it was basically glurge which celebrated the vampire identity by appealing to how mine and SapphoWolf's interview made them feel as opposed to the actual content of the pieces. Misrepresenting the situation as battle for who the "true vampires" are affirms vampire identity in the minds of many of the readers who were shaken by the treatise.

So what you're saying, is that you, personally, want a cure for sanguinarianism? Let's say hypothetically you found one, what then? Don't think for a minute that it wouldn't be forced on all sanguinarians. It would be the same as if they found a "cure" for homosexuality. After all, blood drinking is taboo. But then, what about the sangs who simply don't WANT a cure. What about those who have learned to thrive as what they are, and do not view this as a disability? I I certainly don't view it as such. I've learned to survive. The tone of the things you say however, screams that you haven't. You view your condition as an unfortunate hindrance, and obviously have not learned to thrive as who, and what you are. You don't accept YOURSELF, and therefore strive to have all of us change.
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