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Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]  |  Religion, Spirituality, & Philosophy  |  Other Religious, Spiritual, & Philosophical Paradigms (Moderators: Merticus, SoulSplat, Eclecta, Maloryn, Zero)  |  I Have A Question For You All 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: I Have A Question For You All  (Read 9819 times)
LadyOfPales
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ITS A SPY


« on: August 21, 2010, 12:45:09 am »

     Would you give up anything in your life in pursuit of "eternal life" if you knew what was the "Truth"?


     Be honest for me, think as deeply as you possibly can. I have some things to say.
This isn't a discussion about what is "truth". Its about what happened today and what's been going on for six years now.

     When I was 13, my parents guilt tripped me into being baptized into a faith. The church wasn't like ordinary christian churches today, but it was clearly not a cult. I went because I was underage and was forced to attend, not because I wanted to. Also when I was 13, I awakened as a sanguine vampire. The timing was right, wasn't it?
As time went on, I realized some "things" about the church. I was very young, but I could comprehend well as I do today /nothing about me has changed farther than 'growing up' and getting little smarter/ I was not boding well in my awakening, and on top of that I was struggling to support a burden of myself caused by the church. The result was almost like a burned fuse in my brain, and I became depressed for the years to come- That seems more apparent before- it was two or three years ago when I finally found a donor, and I felt the depression of not feeding finally lift.

     Here's why all this matters. I was forced to leave my house after a dispute about a month ago and live with my boyfriend with whom I am currently residing.
I left in a hurry, sneaking over later for clothes and toiletries I couldn't carry at the time. I haven't been to church since.
Today I was summoned at the church by the Deacon as a mandatory evaluation to be taken by myself. What it was, was that if a member leaves for a certain amount of time, he/she must be evaluated and pass a 'test' in order to come back.
But what I came to realize, was that the Deacon isn't really the one who decides if I stay or go /unless I make more obvious wrong choices to his answers e.g. saying I don't want to come back/
It's myself who decides of course. The Deacon wants me to stay, so he'd say whatever he can in his power to get me to stay. Sounds easy right? I can say I want to go to church and pass? No.
     My mom found my personal documentaries while I was out. That's right. Everyone has to know my fucking dilemma, top to fucking bottom. Being sanguine isn't going to fly by, especially when drinking blood is basically considered murder in the Bible. On top of that they also know I've had sex from my writings. Even if I'm forgiven, I don't seriously think I'll ever be treated the same by my family again.
The Deacon told me to repent, change little by little, and you should be fine here. Is it easy to change knowing that I'm completely different from them? I'm scared to go back knowing that I'm not going to change. /What if they found out that I hadn't? In that case I really couldn't come back [lost chance at what I deeply wish for in my heart]/
Or not go back at all? /live every day to the fullest without any kind of hope/risk bad relations with my family/
Change and feel like a dancing bear hoping for the end to finally come?

There's a quote I heard a few days ago
     "You can teach a dog to stand on it's hind legs, but in the end, it's still a dog.."
They say if I repent /dancing bear../ it's possible to be saved.. so I'm not cursed to die. But if I ignore them, I have what's coming for me.
It would have been better for me not to have known that to know and throw it all away
                    Wouldn't you agree if you were able to experience what is called "truth" for yourself?
     So tell me, help me as best you can.
What would you do in my situation, assuming that everything I knew and experienced was what everyone is searching for, /eternal life and the hope to be saved/?
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RKCoon
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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2010, 01:39:45 am »

Hooooo boy, that sounds like a mess.

Well, first I had to check your profile for your age, which, while not legal to drink in the US, it IS legal to be on your own, as I understand it? Either way, From what you write, you're pretty screwed anyway.  If your family found out about your "online dealings" shall we say, or found a diary where you state you've drank blood (human or otherwise),  they will either outcast you, or try to 'convert' you, 'for christ'. Either way, It ain't gonna be pleasant.

Now, lets set aside for a moment the notion of the after life and such, and worry about THIS life, here and now.  You have a few options, none of them particularly pleasant  (My opinions will be italicized.) --

1. 'Repent', as the deacon says, knowing your living a lie. Bear in mind that even if you do so, they will forever hold this over you, to further guilt trip you.  Yea sounds fun, doesnt it? This is a story I see so very often, especially in the LGBT community, people having to hide something as mundane as their sexual identity and preference from family and 'friends', or be outcast.

2. Fight it out. If you and your boyfriend are in a stable relationship AND in a stable setting, ie, you both work, and more importantly, your lives and lively hood cannot be threatened by those part of the church, then if you feel you are strong enough, you could try to do as some of these people around here have, that is, educate them that your a not an evil person, simply different. Good luck with that, personally, I would expect to see your name either in the obituaries or in the funny farm. If you were in Canada (Not alberta, where I am, where they'd rather hoist the yankee stars n stripes and not the maple leaf), you might have a solid chance.

3. Abandon ship. two ways to do this - A. Silently in the middle of the night, and B) making a huge freaking fuss about it as much as possible before doing so. Either way, this seems the best option from my point of view - given how you imply how heavily religious your area is, you wont get a minute's peace from these clowns, and starting a new life elsewhere may be your only option.

Now, I realize this comes off as harsh sounding, and I implore you not to take what I am saying here personally as an attack; but rather, someone who walks the line of being the different one in a religious land, someone who KNOWS first hand how obsessive, how crazy, how insane religious zealots are, and how nutty they will get over having a 'heathen in their midsts'.  Been there, doing that.  As far as what the after life holds? Worry about that when you get that far, your life NOW is much more important.


As an aside note, not to hijack your topic, but I do want to point out that your story here so precisely and exactly illustrates what I have railed about time and time and time and time again to the OVC people that like to live 'out and proud' to borrow the gay phase -  This is the cost to some of us of being discovered.  This is why being secret is so bloody (no pun intended) essential - because in some countries, the US in particular, the religious fundies would happily wage a holy war to exterminate us.

Exaggeration? ask LadyOfPales on that.

Oh, and you christian/related folks out there, that were upset with my rantings  ---  THIS is why I get so livid with people of your faith, what they are so happy to do to the rest of us.
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Soulshroude
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A whisper in the wind, heard in the dead of night


« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2010, 01:55:33 am »

First off I would like to say that I was baptized Mormon at the age of 5.  That said.. in my perspective that certain religious orders ie, Baptist, Lutheran, J's Witness, Mormon, are zealot-esque in teachings.  There is nothing in the bible that declares the intake of blood as murder that I know of.  If this were the case, then religion be damned for taking by symbolism, the blood of the Christ during their Sacrament (ritual).  Thus, Jesus would have been banished for even coming forth with the idea of drinking of his blood and eating his flesh symbolically.

I say, think for yourself and let not the judgers run through your life unannounced.  But let them know that you are aware of what they are trying to do.  If you really want back into that church, then more power to you.  But the way your church goes by it, seems a bit out of the norm.  Testing you to see if you still "fit in"?  Give me a break.  Church's and religion are supposed to welcome members with open arms.  Sounds more like an occult to me.  Damned zealots!
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"Those of whom hath commited a fault, shall be given the chance to redeem themselves." ~Faust~

"To labor under a dilusion of grandeur will, as time allows.. corrupt." ~Soulshroude~
RKCoon
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2010, 02:03:36 am »

First off I would like to say that I was baptized Mormon at the age of 5.  That said.. in my perspective that certain religious orders ie, Baptist, Lutheran, J's Witness, Mormon, are zealot-esque in teachings.  There is nothing in the bible that declares the intake of blood as murder that I know of.  If this were the case, then religion be damned for taking by symbolism, the blood of the Christ during their Sacrament (ritual).  Thus, Jesus would have been banished for even coming forth with the idea of drinking of his blood and eating his flesh symbolically.

I say, think for yourself and let not the judgers run through your life unannounced.  But let them know that you are aware of what they are trying to do.  If you really want back into that church, then more power to you.  But the way your church goes by it, seems a bit out of the norm.  Testing you to see if you still "fit in"?  Give me a break.  Church's and religion are supposed to welcome members with open arms.  Sounds more like an occult to me.  Damned zealots!




..............................You ARE kidding, right?
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LadyOfPales
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Gender: Female
Posts: 118

ITS A SPY


« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2010, 02:36:55 am »

Hooooo boy, that sounds like a mess.

Well, first I had to check your profile for your age, which, while not legal to drink in the US, it IS legal to be on your own, as I understand it? Either way, From what you write, you're pretty screwed anyway.  If your family found out about your "online dealings" shall we say, or found a diary where you state you've drank blood (human or otherwise),  they will either outcast you, or try to 'convert' you, 'for christ'. Either way, It ain't gonna be pleasant.

Now, lets set aside for a moment the notion of the after life and such, and worry about THIS life, here and now.  You have a few options, none of them particularly pleasant  (My opinions will be italicized.) --

1. 'Repent', as the deacon says, knowing your living a lie. Bear in mind that even if you do so, they will forever hold this over you, to further guilt trip you.  Yea sounds fun, doesnt it? This is a story I see so very often, especially in the LGBT community, people having to hide something as mundane as their sexual identity and preference from family and 'friends', or be outcast.

2. Fight it out. If you and your boyfriend are in a stable relationship AND in a stable setting, ie, you both work, and more importantly, your lives and lively hood cannot be threatened by those part of the church, then if you feel you are strong enough, you could try to do as some of these people around here have, that is, educate them that your a not an evil person, simply different. Good luck with that, personally, I would expect to see your name either in the obituaries or in the funny farm. If you were in Canada (Not alberta, where I am, where they'd rather hoist the yankee stars n stripes and not the maple leaf), you might have a solid chance.

3. Abandon ship. two ways to do this - A. Silently in the middle of the night, and B) making a huge freaking fuss about it as much as possible before doing so. Either way, this seems the best option from my point of view - given how you imply how heavily religious your area is, you wont get a minute's peace from these clowns, and starting a new life elsewhere may be your only option.

Now, I realize this comes off as harsh sounding, and I implore you not to take what I am saying here personally as an attack; but rather, someone who walks the line of being the different one in a religious land, someone who KNOWS first hand how obsessive, how crazy, how insane religious zealots are, and how nutty they will get over having a 'heathen in their midsts'.  Been there, doing that.  As far as what the after life holds? Worry about that when you get that far, your life NOW is much more important.


As an aside note, not to hijack your topic, but I do want to point out that your story here so precisely and exactly illustrates what I have railed about time and time and time and time again to the OVC people that like to live 'out and proud' to borrow the gay phase -  This is the cost to some of us of being discovered.  This is why being secret is so bloody (no pun intended) essential - because in some countries, the US in particular, the religious fundies would happily wage a holy war to exterminate us.

Exaggeration? ask LadyOfPales on that.

Oh, and you christian/related folks out there, that were upset with my rantings  ---  THIS is why I get so livid with people of your faith, what they are so happy to do to the rest of us.


I'm really dissapointed with this, not to try to offend you, but assuming that who I deal with and the people I know- how they act- I can tell you that you are very wrong since my situation is straight up different. In anyways, I wanted to know what was mentioned in the last sentence, "What would you do in my situation, assuming that everything I knew and experienced was what everyone is searching for, /eternal life and the hope to be saved/?"
I can't help but feel your bias against Christianity is getting in the way of me looking for an answer.
-But I kind of expected it, seeing this kind of thought from many people and not just you as a specific. Anyways, please answer my question.
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>:|
RKCoon
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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2010, 02:45:35 am »

Well, for your sake, I hope I am reading the situation wrong. That said, if i were in that position, and in some ways I am, my answer is this - I keep true to myself as much as I can, faking it otherwise to achieve what I want and need.  I personally believe in the notion of multiple lives rather than an afterlife, so the heaven/hell concept is not a concern to me.  Ultimately, what I do is all orchestrated for my LIFE, and I will deal with the afterlife when/if I get there.

Does that answer your question?
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Soulshroude
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A whisper in the wind, heard in the dead of night


« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2010, 03:25:32 am »

No ~RKCoon~, I was not nor am I now kidding.  I, unlike others in society that surround themselves with religion.. CAN think for myself.  Why, do you biasly or blatantly have something against what I wrote in my post?  if so, then bring it forward so we can get into a "heated" debate as usual, so as I can set you symbol.  Then after all is said and done, we will be right back at square one, without even answering the thread posters question, or giving meaningful advice.  The choice is yours.
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"Those of whom hath commited a fault, shall be given the chance to redeem themselves." ~Faust~

"To labor under a dilusion of grandeur will, as time allows.. corrupt." ~Soulshroude~
RKCoon
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Gender: Male
Posts: 460



« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2010, 11:14:14 am »

I'm wondering how you can sit there and say with a straight face, " Church's and religion are supposed to welcome members with open arms", when as demonstrated by the mere presence of this topic, the opposite is true; as a general whole. Sure, there may be some that are truly open and dont care (IE, the NON denominational churches), but these are the exception, NOT the rule. Further, the christians, the catholics, the muslims, all of these major denominations have literally thousands of years of history of causing bloodshed, NOT being 'welcome and opening' as you would put it.

Is it truly that hard to recognize reality when it presents itself?  I mean honestly, what does it take for people to recognize the critical flaws in this, this notion that 'the churches are welcoming and open to all"? There is literally several thousand years of history to DISprove this. And please, PLEASE dont repeat that irritating line of "it was people doing it and not the fault of the faith", when I can easily produce scripture after scripture within the bible that dictates clearly that its followers are to hate and kill those that are different.   Its like the windows program, when the source code is faulty and full of bugs, it will crash hard when used. Same concept here -  The source book is where these people draw their beliefs from, and its where they draw their actions from.
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NyteMuse
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2010, 11:19:12 am »

So tell me, help me as best you can.
What would you do in my situation, assuming that everything I knew and experienced was what everyone is searching for, /eternal life and the hope to be saved/?

F* em. These guys aren't the only spiritual path in the world, nor the only one that claims a path to salvation (if you go in for that business), and some of them are darn-near bed-cousins for how similar they appear or act. If someone in a position of leadership of a spiritual group (priest, deacon, bishop, cardinal, high priestess, ANY trad) is making you that uncomfortable, it's the wrong place for you to be. Even IF you haven't had this conference with the Deacon or whatever, the fact that you have to apply to return smells wrong to me. I see no reason why you can't find a different faith if you feel compelled to be part of a religion (it's not necessarily for everyone). I suppose you could also try finding a different group of that faith, but it's possible all of them are just as "cool kids only" and secretive. The other warning sign would be that you were baptized here because your parents "guilt-tripped" you, not because you were moved to want to be part of it.

Also, somewhat side note, I don't believe Truth or "eternal life" necessarily has to be reached via another human being (i.e. a priest telling you what to do). I opine that priests should be there to guide the laity to developing their own awareness and relationship with God, the Tao, the Flying Spaghetti Monster...whatever higher power that spirituality goes for, even if just your Higher Self or Holy Guardian Angel. It's true that's not always the case now, sadly, but then, there are many ways in which we've deviated from how things started.
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LadyOfPales
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ITS A SPY


« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2010, 10:42:12 pm »

Well, for your sake, I hope I am reading the situation wrong. That said, if i were in that position, and in some ways I am, my answer is this - I keep true to myself as much as I can, faking it otherwise to achieve what I want and need.  I personally believe in the notion of multiple lives rather than an afterlife, so the heaven/hell concept is not a concern to me.  Ultimately, what I do is all orchestrated for my LIFE, and I will deal with the afterlife when/if I get there.

Does that answer your question?
Well, unfortunately no.. but that leads me to ask myself what I was asked last night.
Why would you ask people questions searching for an answer, knowing that the answer you will get will not be to your satisfaction?
I know that since there's no one out there like this, like me, I'm only going to be received with the same mannerisms as I already see and know about.
I ask, out of curiosity. I am not looking for an ordinary response /even if I'm positive it's all I'll get../. I'm not looking for people to give me answers to my situation, I know what I want to do already based on what I made my mind up on before. Going back there today reminded me of how much I was missed, and the things and people I missed. I will try to do the best I can for the future until I am ready to go home. I just hope that my issues no longer continue to cause any more pain to my family or friends.
I will always be in this limbo, for the rest of my life. There's nothing anyone could do to change that, unless my memory was wiped..
I will hope that in my future, someone else will find the same issues that I have now and share them with me- I just wish there was someone who could understand what it's like to live with this parallel.
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RKCoon
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« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2010, 12:40:10 am »

To a large extent, life is what YOU make it. If they dont want your company, if they will not accept you for who and what you are, why waste your time over them? Move on, and be happy with yourself. Its this life, here and now, that is importantl chasing after a fantasy that isnt likely to exist will simply leave you 'in limbo' as you put it.  Tis unfortunate that the line was crossed, but it is now, and cant be undone.
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Soulshroude
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A whisper in the wind, heard in the dead of night


« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2010, 01:19:08 am »

~RKCoon~ I am not posting about the political rules that surround religions via their "open door" policies being with attitude and or bloodshed.  I am discussing what I have witnessed in my past regarding an "open door" and "open arm" greeting that came with a few churches with the way they went about things.  What you have or had experienced in your past with churches in your neighborhood or mixing politics in with your research of religious idealisms and aspects are greatly differant then what I have experienced for myself when it comes to personal aquantance.  The differance between you and I, it seems, is the fact that you maintain a political view and mine is of a personal nature without bias or hateful intent.  Therefore, I take back nothing of what I stated about "churches and or religions having open arms for future members."

It is unfortunate that a few religions don't share the same view of "open door" as the rest of the bunch.  But such is the way of things.  By preaching intolerance, it only causes strife and negativity in return.  Which is why, in my perspective, a few religions and or churches are and or remain "currupt."  It is no longer the will of God, but the will of the church or religious leaders and or eldership.  religious politics in a nutshell.  A very very bad combination.
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"Those of whom hath commited a fault, shall be given the chance to redeem themselves." ~Faust~

"To labor under a dilusion of grandeur will, as time allows.. corrupt." ~Soulshroude~
RKCoon
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Gender: Male
Posts: 460



« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2010, 01:33:53 am »

Its not 'my experiences' as it is 'my observations'. Its my observation that many churches and religions go out of their way to segregate and cause grief and harm to those that do not subscribe to them, and those that dont are not particularly vocal about their siblings in faith being twits.
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Soulshroude
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A whisper in the wind, heard in the dead of night


« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2010, 01:40:25 am »

Then by all means, remain in "observation" while others take the initiate to advance in "experiences" for themselves regarding these churches and or religions to see for themselves either the positives or negatives that surround this area of discussion.  This seems a slight problem with the world as of late.  Too many observers and not enough experiences to go around.  Too much slander without actual experience to verify the slander.  Must this world always believe word of mouth, either by the media, newspapers or what is seen on the television?  But, I digress.  learn for yourselves the truth of your own reality.
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"Those of whom hath commited a fault, shall be given the chance to redeem themselves." ~Faust~

"To labor under a dilusion of grandeur will, as time allows.. corrupt." ~Soulshroude~
RKCoon
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Level 5 Contributor
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 460



« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2010, 02:05:19 am »

Flip side of the coin, I don't need to drop a hammer on my foot to know it'll hurt. I can see that, observe it, and make the logical conclusion that such an act will cause pain and damage.  The same applies to religion. I read history books, i study history, and all throughout it i see multiple instances of bloodshed, war, suffering and horror committed in the names of religion. I watch the current news, and I see mideast religions continuing their very same bloodbath, while i see the religions on this side of the pond either working tirelessly to strip rights and freedoms from others, or those not directly active, turn a blind eye to those doing so.

 Are they ALL guilty? No. Do they all subscribe to what is the same base, core belief?

Damn skippy they do.
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