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Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]  |  Religion, Spirituality, & Philosophy  |  Other Religious, Spiritual, & Philosophical Paradigms (Moderators: Merticus, SoulSplat, Eclecta, Maloryn, Zero)  |  A Religious Rant 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: A Religious Rant  (Read 17339 times)
RKCoon
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« on: August 08, 2010, 12:06:09 am »

After reading for the umpteenth time this week about foreign aid workers getting slaughtered in the mideast,  and I ask the following question ---

When are people going to realize that, in regards to the mideast, it is not a "war on terror" or a "liberating war" but a war of religion?  As an example --

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/08/07/aid-workers-killed-afghanistan.html

Quote
Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid told The Associated Press in Pakistan that they killed the foreigners because they were "spying for the Americans" and "preaching Christianity."

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/08/07/aid-workers-killed-afghanistan.html#ixzz0vyz3kXGG

That last part is key. Forgetting the whole hatred the american government has generated against itself, the fact remains, these people that are picking up guns and making bombs are religious zealots. Theyve been killing each other for the last ten thousand years, all for what? For their gods. For  their religions. For the sake of killing.  They see someone of a different religion - or even someone they THINK is a different religion, and they blow their heads off.


It sickens me.  And ya know what? Practically every major religion out there has blood on its hands, for its "dead false gods". Christianity? Islam? Catholicism?  They all have been killing each other for millenia, and with no WANT to stop. For all their words of peace, their own damn books state clearly "If you see one you cannot convert, KILL them." No amount of sugar coating or fancy word play changes that.

And it goes past that.  Scientific advancement?  Religion, without exception, sees this as a threat. Why?  Because Science encourages people to think for themselves, with logic, with ration, with reason, and this is the biggest enemy of religion, for religion demands that people accept, without question, without logic, without ration, without REASON.  Sure, you have the moderates of any religion that dont, or wont, take it to that extreme, but at each religion's core, you find the same thing - Believe and do NOT question! Believe and go to a form of heaven none have seen, none can prove; dont disobey, or we will VERY happily torture your mind while it exists with the promise of further torment in the mythical afterlife. 

And, further still it goes. Want equal rights for men and women? Not in the bible, you dont. Want to love your same sex partner? That be grounds for stoning, bitch, and not in the drug way. Want to raise your children (especially adopt) without the bloody influence of a god or gods? PAH! Sorry bucko, you are NOT good enough, not if you do not get down on your knees and pray to that mythical sky monster!

My question is this. What the Hades is it going to take for humanity as a whole to toss off the bloody shackles that is religion, that is blind faith misplaced in false gods? Is it really going to be like star trek, where the only way humanity grew out of its babe state was to practically nuke itself out of existence?  Is that really what its going to take?
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Soulshroude
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2010, 01:26:10 am »

I really could discuss this thread, but I would be immediately insulting most religions out there with my rebuttle.  So I am unsure if I should take it to the research area that I am currently at ie, Spirituality vs Religion.

So I will put it this way instead:

Spirituality has been around for centuries.  Since even before the time of the Egyptians, in the era of Atlantis and the Hyperboreans there was Spirituality.  Somehow, somewhere along the way, religion was born.  It had to be from a group of academic, governmental rulers who wanted to instill a belief system into their people for the sake of ruling them through manipulation.  This takes us the Egyptians.  There were what I refer to as ancient King making ceremonies.  With metaphoric life, death and resurrection.  Each King wanted his people to see him as their metaphoric God.  Thus in a timely fashion, he was shown in a ritual that alluded to life, death and his resurrection as a living God.  Thus we have Ra, Isis, Osiris, and the other God's of old from the Egyptian culture.  These were all real people in their history.  Again, somehow, somewhere things went beyond this philosophy and belief system.  More then likely during or after the reign of Constantinos when he was force to make a decision between Paganism and Christianity.  Blah...  It wasn't until after the path of Jesus the Nazerene when it went all down hill.  After the big debacle of his supposed crucifiction, Peter ended up founding the Church of Christ with concepts that Jesus taught him.   The only blunder on this one was the fact that Jesus told his disciples to LEARN from him and NOT to worship him.  We all know the rest from there.

The only problem is that society is so easily manipulated by the world around them that they tend to forget to take of the tunnel vision and use common sense and actually be aware of their own beliefs before following the leader as blindly as they do.  The worship of Allah through Mecca:  Worshipping with blind faith through a rock that fell from the sky... I can see a hypocritic flaw here.  Just saying.  But enough of blasting other religions.  I am just wanting to know where the vast amount of general society went from being Spiritual to becoming zealots for their religions and why they do it to begin with.

Now for the conspiracy:  If aliens, or other dimensional beings exist, then the vampire would more then likely be worshipped as well.  Good thing we have not come that far yet.  Uh, oh... 2012 here we come... HA!
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paindancer
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« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2010, 11:40:42 am »

Well, Abrihamic religions cover the globe and have always been violent.  (Muslim, christianity and Judaism). 

Religions are man made devices created to control people.  They may be based on spiritual practices, but more often than not they do not hold true to those philosipies.  Thats just the way things have been for a very very long time.

It is upsetting to see the violence that occurs, but it is not the philosiphies.. rather the men behnind it.  When you rile people up on an emotional level, using broad strokes and little fact.. you have a religious fevor.  The Muslim extremists use it, as does our religion and culture.

There are many in this united states who blame the muslim religion for 9/11, equating al-qedah to mainstream Muslim thought.  In reality,  that would be like saying the westbourough baptists represent mainstream Christians.

I feel your pain, dude.  The only think you can do is rise above it and lead by example.
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RKCoon
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2010, 12:49:20 pm »

Well, theres a few thoughts to all this. One, everyone has the right to believe as they see fit, no matter how insane (vamps could easily be classed in that) - the line is crossed, however, when these people try to impose/force on others their beliefs. This ranges from open warfare that the fundies engage in, to the infiltration and alteration of public government that the moderates love engaging in.  Couple of Canadian examples come to mind - one, the ruling that the sikhs/related are allowed to wear their turbans while on duty as RCMP officers. To me, this says "I am a religious person first and a public servant second." This is horseshit to me - call me a socialist, but if you are employed by the government, be it a local or federal level, the idea is you are there for ALL people, not just some - and there is no question that there are conflicts arising because of this.  Another example - the allowing of some officials that perform weddings/unions/related are allowed to NOT wed two people of the same gender, on the basis of their religious beliefs. Again, same thought applies -the idea is yer supposed to be there for EVERYone.

Past all this, SoulShroude, I say, go ahead and say what you WANT to say, for if a persons faith or beliefs cannot withstand logical, rational scrutiny, then they should reexamine what the hells they believe.  In this, I would challenge you, PD, on your comment -

Quote
It is upsetting to see the violence that occurs, but it is not the philosiphies.. rather the men behnind it.  When you rile people up on an emotional level, using broad strokes and little fact.. you have a religious fevor.  The Muslim extremists use it, as does our religion and culture.

Having read the bible, and having something of a grasp of whats in the Koran, I can say, flatly, that the source material (which admittedly is written by man, despite what they claim) IS designed to inspire hatred, segregation, and violence. This isnt bullshit, this is flat out what is in the source books they use to build their faiths on. Again, yes, you have the moderates that dont take it that far - but their books DO command them to do so.
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2010, 05:30:11 pm »


Quote
It is upsetting to see the violence that occurs, but it is not the philosiphies.. rather the men behnind it.  When you rile people up on an emotional level, using broad strokes and little fact.. you have a religious fevor.  The Muslim extremists use it, as does our religion and culture.

 the source material (which admittedly is written by man, despite what they claim) IS designed to inspire hatred, segregation, and violence. This isnt bullshit, this is flat out what is in the source books they use to build their faiths on. Again, yes, you have the moderates that dont take it that far - but their books DO command them to do so.

i would like to disagree with you RK, while i can see how one would interpret it as designed to inspire such things, the christian bible, that i'm familiar with, also tries to inspire love, peace and unity.. (though again, maybe not through the whole thing)
"treat others the way you'd like to be treated" and "love thy neighbor" are just two examples, one being one of the ten commandments, supposedly really important to christians. breaking one of those 'rules' could result in excommunication or something, couldn't it? (though i guess the punishment of excommunication would further support segregation and such).
Though even still, i understand and believe it's been explained to me that it's a matter of interpretation..
Many  believe it was intended (though isnpired of 'G/god' but written by man) to be understood one way, but several religions and individuals themselves will always understand something in many different ways.
though there's always several sides to the same truth.
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RKCoon
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2010, 07:52:39 pm »

I was gonna go on a rant about the ten commandments, but Ill let someone do it far better than I could --

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YzEs2nj7iZM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/YzEs2nj7iZM</a>
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2010, 09:08:10 pm »

Quote
Having read the bible, and having something of a grasp of whats in the Koran, I can say, flatly, that the source material (which admittedly is written by man, despite what they claim) IS designed to inspire hatred, segregation, and violence. This isnt bullshit, this is flat out what is in the source books they use to build their faiths on. Again, yes, you have the moderates that dont take it that far - but their books DO command them to do so.

I question that. I, too, have read the Bible cover to cover. There are ugly parts, I don't deny that. There are many stories that most Christians don't want to acknowledge or let get out to potential recruits. However, I will say that the work in and of itself isn't "designed" to do anything, in all honesty. I'm a staunch Christian, however I will say this: the Bible is nothing more than a collection of the oral traditions and history of a race: the Jewish people. As such, there are parts that aren't happy, fluffy, bunny stories. There are parts that have good moral fiber. It's not a designed thing, in many ways (despite the Council of Nicene) and if you read the Apocrypha (the books not included in the main Bible) you will get a more complete view of all the various parts of it. Also, some of the worse parts of it actually are mistranslations: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is an intentional mistranslation in the King James Version. The KJV is actually the worst translation to read if you ever intend to read the Bible and understand the faith. It is seven translations away from the original Greek and Hebrew and was written specifically to glorify the reign of King James. The poetry is beautiful, however... it's not accurate.

Is that to say that atrocities have not been done in the name of God and country? Absolutely not. The Crusades, the Inquisition... and many other wars. However, there have been wars over similar things in the East and the Muslims and Jews have been killing each other over whether or not they own the land bequeathed to Abraham. The Romans fought with the Jews over their faith (the Romans trying to force the Jews to convert). There have been countless evils perpetrated in the name of religion.

Does this mean that religion is inherently evil? I would say no. However, I would suggest that man may well be.
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RKCoon
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2010, 09:27:12 pm »

Well, if you wanna step up to the plate, lemme toss a few hardballs at you.

To start with, where do you draw the line? You have already stated you do not follow ALL of the bible, or indeed, you would likely not be here. So, where do you say, "this passage was written by man" and " this passage written by god"?

While you ponder that, let me toss #2. If we accept for the moment the bible as genuine and bonafide, how do you condone, to yourself if not to others, the acts of evil conducted, not by man (and indeed, there are many listed) but by the god itself?

While that is chewing on you, here is #3.  If on the other hand you wish to say that most if not all the words are indeed NOT "the word of god" but instead, written and rewritten by the word of man, then how do you come to terms with the very strong possibility (in my mind, flat out fact) that you are not following your 'god's wishes, but rather, that of men bent on control of masses, of people like you, with false promises of eternal life and joy, while at the same time, promising to torment for eternity those that disagree?
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2010, 10:20:54 pm »

Alright, I'm happy to answer you.

Every passage was written by man. While certain parts may well be inspired by the divine but the whole work was written by man, as I said it's the written oral history and tradition of a nomadic race. The whole work was written by the hand of humanity, God didn't write a word of it. Not directly, anyway, and to think otherwise would be a little silly.

I don't condone the acts of evil conducted by man or by God. God did some pretty horrible stuff in the Old Testament, and I won't pretend otherwise. But I don't believe that the divine is above mistake either and it is my theory that the vengeful, angry god of the Old Testament was, in fact, a young God that was not yet fully matured. If that makes any sense to you. I don't believe in any acts of cruelty or injustice against anybody for any reason. I believe that every religion has a right to be respected and that there are many, many paths to the divine. Everyone has to find their own and they will not all be the same.

Actually, number two didn't chew on me at all, it's something that I have pondered myself for a very long time. What I believe is that the Ten Commandments are a very good moral barometer and I have had enough personal encounters with the divine to know that I believe that it is there. I'm not going to try and justify what nature and form it takes because that experience is between myself and God. Every experience that anyone has with the divine (however they perceive it) are something personal and for you alone. Whatever path you take, be it Wicca, Hinduism, Druidism, Christianity, Voodoo, your experiences with your own path are yours. You choose what is right for you and no one else. Follow where your instincts and heart tell you to go and live that life to the best of your ability.
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RKCoon
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2010, 10:29:58 pm »

By stating that, then, you render yourself wide open to Epicurus' statement -

Quote
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god.

Very logical, very straightforward - and very unanswerable by those of the faith. Personally, I find I would rather simply treat people well for the sake of doing so, live decently for the sake of doing so, and so on, not because some invisible sky demon might get pissy if i dont.  Or hells, that might be enough of a reason in and of itself to be an ass.
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2010, 10:59:08 pm »

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. - Albert Camus.

That's about all I have to say about it. I understand Epicurus's statement and honestly believe that there likely are things beyond what we understand. Like I said, you are welcome to walk your own path and I encourage you to question everything. That's healthy. But that doesn't mean that I don't have my own answers. I'm not trying to convert you into anything, so please don't try to "deconvert me". I find it rather frustrating when people that speak out against Christianity try to "convert" me to their way of thinking. I don't go about trying to "convert" you to Christianity so please do me the same respect.

As far as the thing about God, I don't believe he is omnipotent. I don't think he can control human free will.

I respect your right and your beliefs, but I hope that you are willing to offer me the same respect in return.
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2010, 11:26:36 pm »

And in direct response to that, I have not one, but two separate vids that detail, rather eloquently i should think, why I am one of those, for want of term, "militant atheists', those that tend to be merciless when dealing with those of faith.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9-EKFcoAxrE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/9-EKFcoAxrE</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z2QG4D64c20" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Z2QG4D64c20</a>

Ill let those two vids speak for me this time.
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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2010, 12:07:52 am »

Then you are just as bad as the people you rally against, my friend. Look in the mirror. You are proselytizing in the name of your "faith" (since it is your faith that there is no faith) and as such you are committing the same sins that you hate.

I am not going to continue this discussion
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A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring.
-- Alexander Pope, Unknown , 1688-1744

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
-- Heinlein's Razor
RKCoon
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« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2010, 12:22:48 am »

And that is absolute bullshit in and of itself - I dont go killing in the name of atheism. I dont demand courts reject equal rights for all. I dont deny two lovers the right to marry. I dont deny a happy family the adoption of a child.  I use words only, when they fail, I leave it be. Cant say the same of ANY religion, yours included.  Further, thats another typical defense too, when those of faith get cornered by people like me - they realize they have nothing to counter the sound logic, the rational reason assailed on them, and their faith in and of itself is proven to be the nothing it is. 

Wink
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« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2010, 01:23:27 am »

~RK~  I would like to remind you of a practice that is rarely, if ever, taken into consideration... Antidisastablishmentarianism.  Seperation of Church and State.  These two make a very ugly couple to begin with.  We can either discuss religion or we can discuss politics.  But if one were to discuss the politics of religion, then the discussion may as well turn into a heated debate over who thinks they are right, as apposed to what the truth (which is burried in the past) may have been.  There really is no right nor wrong answer.  The extremists are the way they are because this is the way they are brought up, much like a gangbanger that grew up in the ghetto.  Such is the way of life.  If people actually learned a truth to religion and its controversial founding, then they may as well get pissed off if one small fact could be that religion is a veil wrapped around the eyes of the easily manipulated.  To shrouded them from their true spiritual being ie, their Akashic records (their souls blueprint).

But, I have said too much, carry on with this discussion.  It is an interesting one.
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"Those of whom hath commited a fault, shall be given the chance to redeem themselves." ~Faust~

"To labor under a dilusion of grandeur will, as time allows.. corrupt." ~Soulshroude~
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