Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]

Vampires & Vampirism => Vampire Community & Subcultural Discussion => Topic started by: Merticus on March 27, 2008, 02:42:02 pm



Title: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: Merticus on March 27, 2008, 02:42:02 pm
The following is a question that was posed for group discussion at TWILIGHT II in Atlanta, GA this past March 2008.  I'd like to continue the discussion here on the AVA forum to gather everyone's opinion and input on the particular subject.  Please answer the question (all parts) below and offer your perspective!


Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?

Discussion:
Should the community encourage or discourage "Lifestylers" as participants?   How do we feel about the crossover between the Lifestyler community and the real vampire community - are the lines starting to blur, or was there ever a difference in the first place? Community activities seem to cater toward those who want to dress up and Goth-out, yet this aesthetic is adopted by a minority of real vampires (or is it?).  Is the community giving the impression that you have to dress Goth and go to clubs to be a "real" vampire, or is it just an innocent outlet for those of us who like the aesthetic, the metaphor, or just the cool technogoth boots?   Does dressing like movie vampires help or hinder the community, and is it a valid outer representation of one's inner vampirism, or a trivializing of it?


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: BlackDragon on March 27, 2008, 04:47:17 pm
Personally i like the lifestylers but would not let them participate in some things that i do. I am not a goth or seldom dress up like one, but i aways encourage individuality. Depending on the event and what it in telled i would probably not go if i had to dress like a goth. I was once looking into joining a house and was very interested, but they had a rule that you had to dress up in fetish/goth attire to attend all events. i turned this down. As an individual it would not be me. I'm a jeans and t shirt kind of guy. I feel comfortable this way. But if ask to a BDSM or Goth event and dressing up was just a thing to have some fun or what not i would. I am a club goer but that doesn't make me real and i think it might hinder the community to promote a goth only environment. It might look to someone that is not goth not to even persue his awakening.


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: sandmanbrian777 on May 16, 2008, 06:45:33 pm
Greetings Merticus and fellow list members :

Should the community encourage or discourage "Lifestylers" as participants? 
*****It is a free society and others are welcome to particpate on a certain level.
Although it is difficult to consider them in the same light as core members of the Community.
Some do come into the fold when they realize the truth behind their true inspiration.  Another advantage is that with more people in the public network it is much easier to blend in and not call attention to our selves, perhaps hiding in plainsight.

How do we feel about the crossover between the Lifestyler community and the real vampire community - are the lines starting to blur, or was there ever a difference in the first place?
********I believe it is 2 different and very distinct societies.  Apperance wise to the outsider there is no difference.  If another new lifestyle comes up and is more popular will they transfer over to that fad just as easily?  Is it a phase or a belief system for them ?  All popular limages have an appeal to others.  Most sub-groups have eccentric/concentric rings of involvement depending on the ampunt of commitment a personis willing to give.   I need not inform you of the commitment and self searching a Vamp has to go through to embrace and grow in the intrinsic calling of our psi/sang inner callings. 

Community activities seem to cater toward those who want to dress up and Goth-out, yet this aesthetic is adopted by a minority of real vampires (or is it?). 
**********Although lots in the community do dress in Goth attire, maybe it depends on the individual Vamp and their background?  Quite a few dress in black subdued attire.  At the clubs one can see lots of PVC and some really great designs.  At heavy BDSM events which aren't
for those who "Stand and Model " fetish dress is mandatory.   Play Stations are always full with waiting lines.  Is is OK sometimes for a Newbie to come in dark clothes at a few BDSM events, but is does something for everyone to be dressed in leathers and be accepted by others in the Leather Community.  Serving as a voluntary DM (Dungeon Monitor) it is part of my job to observe for those who are there to just hustle the females for pick-ups.  Some don't know the standard safety procedures for use of equipment also, which is immediately noticed.  So you ask what has this to do with the Vamp Vommunity.  It is the same thing with some of those who are lifestylers.  They aren't concerned with the accepted practices nor do they care to learn.  A problem arises when they Vanilla's portray themselves as real to others who don't realize.   

Is the community giving the impression that you have to dress Goth and go to clubs to be a "real" vampire, or is it just an innocent outlet for those of us who like the aesthetic, the metaphor, or just the cool technogoth boots? 
**********Several members of our local community dress along a spectrum of styles.  The clothes don't make the Vamp the intrinsic calling does.
Usually when near another Vamp I get a energy push in the chest area,  although some have a lower energy signature. 

Does dressing like movie vampires help or hinder the community,...
*******As long as their behavior doesn't represent the Vamp Community.  Is it sensationalism or a natural expression of what we are?  Mythology sells an extreme image to gather in the selling points for others to spend money on.  What is acceptable to Hollwood and the general public and what is true to life varies.  It seems the image makers rule the publics perception and is taken without criitical or rational review.

... and is it a valid outer representation of one's inner vampirism, or a trivializing of it?
***********Maximizing the spectacular for public appeal is what sells.  Reality would result in bankruptcy.  Selling the sizzle and pop of the of the concept of "us against those Vampires" sets up the audience for active particiaption in the psychology of conflict to drive the screen presentation.
The thrill of the terror and of the unknown  shapes their real world impression of what to hate and eradicate.  Unfortunately it makes us the object of hatred.  When I was very young and watched Vampire movies on the big screen( yes a long time ago) I felt a strange connection with the villain.   One thing I dislike greatly is the Newsmedia and writers seeking to make a fast buck every Halloween by doing an article on our local community.  They show up and ask nosey questions to portray Vamps in the worst possible light.  Hey I won't mention the covert surveillance operatives they leave behind to follow some of us.  Investigative Reporters do inspire ethical confidence ?

Brian ........................................V""V..................
********************************************




Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: lilith_angelle on February 13, 2010, 08:19:09 pm
I think that some lifestylers are ok in some areas, eg... if your going out to a club, (not very open here) and you have some lifestylers with you, they can act as so called "camoflauge" if trying to not draw attention. In relation to dressing goth, some of the little kiddy goths and emo's take it a little too far and think they're vampyres  but like what was previously posted, one can usually tell another vampyre if they're standing side by side with each other.... so dressing goth is optional but not nessisary, I think the goth community tends to be more accepting of the notion of vampyres even if they're just roleplayer's and lifestylist's... Im sorry if the post didn't make any sence.


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on April 07, 2010, 02:59:20 pm
Lifestylers aren't vamps, and don't belong in the vamp community.  As for vamps who decide to adopt that aesthetic, well, they certainly aren't going to listen if you tell them not to.  I feel that if they're doing it with tongue firmly in cheek, just for the fun of it, fine--go for it, it's cute.  If they're taking it seriously, they deserve to be mocked.


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: paindancer on April 08, 2010, 11:32:32 am
I cant agree that lifestylers are excluded from legitimacy by default.  They may have a very firmly entrenched identity based on fiction, but that identity may have formed in the process of understanding and deffining themselves.  Its a case, where the contents of the book really cannot be judged by the cover.


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on April 09, 2010, 01:20:49 pm
If they're actually vampires--ie, have a need for blood or energy--then they aren't 'just lifestylers'.  Those would be the latter group I was speaking of.  I don't respect folks who take themselves too seriously though.  Just my thing. <lol>


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: vitchy on April 10, 2010, 05:28:02 am
They should definitely recognize the true identity before leaping into something that they know little about.  So much harm can come out of role playing as we have seen in some of the latest news articles.


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: paindancer on April 10, 2010, 11:57:24 am
But with most of the community in hiding, how would someone deal with awakening in isolation?

I find, that they seek elements that they identify their own condition with.. and a lot of times that ends up role play at first, driven by a deeper desire to understand and deffine themselves.  Annoying.. totally.. but I think there are cases to be made


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on April 10, 2010, 12:40:48 pm
vitchy, are you serious?
Harm doesn't come from roleplaying.  Roleplaying is a fun pasttime.  It's something people do with a game and dice, or online, for entertainment, or in the bedroom for kicks. 
You actually BOUGHT the load of bs the media has been feeding out?  For every nutter who decides he's Jesus and knifes someone, there are like 100 other people who decided to knife someone for purely mundane reasons, and just happened to like playing games on the side--the media jumps on that every time it happens.   "Hey, anything interesting about this guy?  Oh, he played games, that has to be the reason he did it!"

Teenagers may sometimes get carried away, because they're being driven nuts by hormone fluctuations, but they just need a reality check and some time, not a funny white coat with the arms tied in the back.  The vast majority of them aren't that dumb, either.  People don't run away from home or kill each other because of roleplaying games.  Not unless they're schizophrenic or something, and the game didn't cause THAT.


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: vitchy on April 10, 2010, 11:35:32 pm
Roleplaying can be healthy if the child does not get too carried away and lose grip with reality.  But so many teenagers start out roleplaying and then it becomes their life.  There are several reports in the news of teenagers getting too involved and they take off with someone whom they met on line during their roleplaying sessions.  We have had several in our community that have disappeared and during the investigation it was discovered that they were so intent on keeping the game going that they ran away to become apart of the fantasy world that they were involved with on the internet.  One of the girls ended up in California from this area because things didnt turn out like they had been promised. 

No I didnt buy into anything the media was feeding.  I witnessed it.  The young girl was a friend to my daughter.  Now dont you think I would start thinking about what children could get pulled into if the right temptations are offered.  I deal with this everyday at my job.  Its first hand not through the grapevine.  Im the one giving out the missing juvenile reports and reading them as they come in from other law enforcement agencies. 

I feel if parents were more involved with their children  we could really cut back on some of the tragedies that happen to our children.  How does a child know any different unless they are tought.

And blaming every case on a mental disorder is no way to deal with the problem


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on April 11, 2010, 07:02:59 pm
Sorry, but I just don't believe someone packs up all of their essential ID and goes off and gets a job somewhere else because they got involved with a roleplaying game.  I do not for one bare second believe the media's interpretation of these events (nor the parents').  People who are truly delusional do not have the presence of mind to do those things.  There is always A LOT MORE to these types of stories than we are being told.
And yes, if you think you're living in a fantasy world, then you are mentally ill.


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: vitchy on April 11, 2010, 08:38:04 pm
I was not talking about adults who are able to take care of their affairs, I am talking about this generation of teenagers that are nieve.  There is danger in roleplaying if the ones that are partaking have not been taught that it is a fantasy world and start living in that world rather than in the real one.  There is a limit that needs to be addressed when engaging in these types of games.

I have first hand news of these events that have happened in my own community because Im the one hearing the call come in from a parent who cant find their child or loved one.  I talk to the law enforcement officers who go to the residence and find out what the child was doing on that computer that is soooo harmless(sarcastic).  I do admit that the people on the other end of the game are the ones to blame for leading these kids to do what they do but also parents could be more involved. 

I dont agree with you that its all a big lie that the news media is making more out of it than what it is.  Its  a free country so you are entitled to your opinion but if you have children for their sake teach them right. 


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on April 11, 2010, 09:41:34 pm
Absolutely.  My kids are old enough for Tabletop D&D now, and I think they'll have a lot of fun with it.

I just plain do not buy that the RPGs are responsible for the kids leaving home.  They are a convenient scapegoat disguising other issues.  People who think they're living in another world don't generally get jobs.  Teens run away for a LOT of reasons.
Extreme obsession with a game that involves a large aspect of escapism is a symptom, not the source of the problem.  They wanted out, so they retreated into a game...when that wasn't good enough, they left for real. 


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: vitchy on April 11, 2010, 09:54:06 pm
The game itself is not really to blame.  Its the people involved in such.  But the game gives access to those who are looking to harm others.  Its an open door for to allow temptation.  You know though not buying the games doesnt make it go away.  What about the everyday roleplaying that is taking part in drama tv shows for teenagers???  Are you gonna lock your child in a room and monitor every little move they make. 

To me the real solution is get these kids back to reality!!!

Have you seen the number of teenagers on anti-depressants??  Ask them why.  I have.  They were upset because a bully, or the boy or girl they like doesnt like them.  What has happened that makes these children think that life does not have disappoitments??  Older generations went through the same rights of passage and didnt have the problems of today. 

I dont blame the game but until these kids realize that life isnt always what you want it to be the RPGs should be closely monitored.  We could go on and on about this but its not gonna change the times.  Takes more than one.  Keep them safe.  FAREWELL


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on April 12, 2010, 04:03:14 pm
Every activity in life can be a doorway for predators, you most certainly need to keep an eye on your kids, but that isn't the same as preventing them from participating in these activities.

The times have nothing to do with it.  It's no different now than it's always been, for teenagers (since the time when they were married at age 12, anyhow).  The difference now is that people talk about it.  As for teens on anti-depressants...the ones I've asked had no idea why they were depressed, but it certainly didn't have anything to do with a lost love, or school bullies.  I would gather than teens get depressed for the same reasons that adults do--chemical imbalances and emotional traumas.

If your kids have hit their teens without realizing that life isn't always what you want it to be, you've made a mistake already.

I think a generation of paranoid people is being raised by overprotective parents who have been scared by the media, and are passing on their fears to their kids.  That is not healthy.  Kids who are taught that type of fear suffer real consequences for it, lasting ones.  It can effect their emotional health for the rest of their life.  That right THERE may be the cause of much depression.  Kids cannot learn valuable life skills without being given the chance to practice them--that includes being permitted to make their own judgements about situations and people.  Yes, you should be there to help if they screw up, but you have to let them try it on their own, or they'll never learn how.

As for roleplaying games, make it a family activity.  RPGs are an excellent way to explore a variety of scary scenarios in a safe environment.  They can teach kids how to solve problems, how to deal with adversity, and of course, creative thinking!


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: TaylorPhoenix on November 25, 2010, 09:55:44 pm
Starting to blur! I think it started blurred and just got worse from there. The near inability to distinguish between the Goth scene and the real vampire community has long been a source of frustration for those among us who do not participate in that scene. The pressure is felt to "goth it up" in order to get into these circles just as a means of getting in contact with other vampires. I think that there is a reason why it started out blurred in the first place and that is in the early days it was next to impossible to get a roomful of vampires to even utter the words "I think I am a real vampire" to themselves further more to each other, so it largely manifested itself as just dressing it up and playing the part, a few friends and others indulging some innoccent fantasy, until enough time had passed that these individuals became comfortable enough with themselves and each other to start to talk about it in real terms, but by that time the seeds of fantasy had already been planted and the costume and character crowd had already signed onboard. This early inner cirlce if I can call them that had found themselves surrounded by people who just liked to play the part as a means of escape, but by now they were wanting to talk about something serious and real, and had found themselves in a club and party scene that had taken on a life of its own. Lifestylers and role players have near irreversibly contaminated the ability of the real vampire community to separate itself from the scene as a whole, and have fueled this compulsive tendency for us to shrowd everything vampire in a larger goth industrial music scene. But the crossover of the scene aesthetic into the public eye has been detrimental to us in my opinion, not that there is anything wrong with the subcultural aesthetic itself, but rather that it invites eye rolls that every vampire almost anyone outside of the community has ever met is also a goth kid. That is the stereotype that we put ourselves in that makes it easy for people to write us off and pigeon hole us. Not that I am asking that anyone change themselves for the sake of others, but for those of us who intend to take an active role in bringing the real vampire community mainstream I have adopted what I like to call the "reformed look." I myself am the child of goth, punk, anarchist, hardcore and riot grrrl subculture, but have found a way to tone it down in a way that allows me to still maintain my "edgeiness" for lack of a better word, but at the same time still be able to approach mainstream society and be taken seriously, while having a unique flare. Think about how many young professionals working for progressive companies like Google can have pink hair cut in the asymetrical fashion, with little eyelet gauges in their ears that isn't obnoxiously large and still keep their jobs, because it doesn't have anything to do with their ability to do their jobs. Corporate America in particular, and society in general are becoming a lot more leaniant when it comes to progressive workplace looks, and a lot of them can be pulled off and still be satisfying to ones need for self-identity. Walking that line also helps push the envelope for future generations and I find it to be rewarding in the way that I can be myself to a point, and still be taken serioulsy. If I just goth or punk out, everything that I say will be thrown in a mental trash can because in essence "I am just a freak."

Reformed Look- think Don Henrie circa 2008 Tyra Banks Halloween Special, versus Don Henrie Mad Mad House. A pair of black slacks, and a black button up complete with the aire of your personality will do just as well in sending the message of how you identify as dressing up like Marilyn Manson's missing band mates.


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: childofthespiral on December 03, 2010, 10:00:00 pm
I don't fit any particular 'vampire stereotype' that I know of. As I type this, I'm wearing a red shirt with a picture of a stick figure and the words "pull my finger" next to it that I found in a free box at a yard sale, and sweat pants that I got at a church for free in a pile of other clothes in exchange for working for them for a day. I typically wear blue jeans and a shirt like this or some variety of Metallica shirt (I have 35 different Metallica shirts, 10 different Pink Floyd shirts, some Led Zeppelin shirts, some Tool shirts, and some nice looking dress up shirts for job interviews) on a day to day basis. I wear glasses and chapstick and no makeup. I wear 3 rings (wedding ring, engagement ring, and my mother in law's ring that she gave me), 2 pair of earrings (metallica ninja star studs and a pair of dangly silver cameos from my grandma) and one necklace (triple moon pendant set with moonstone from azuregreen.com)  and no other jewelry. I don't wear nail polish because it makes my nails chip, and goddess knows they don't need any help breaking. I'm short, slightly heavy, vegetarian (mostly. there's only so much one can do on food stamps), married, average. No one looking at me would think "hey, she's a vampire". I'm not hiding; I just think it's no ones business unless I make it their business. If I fit any stereotype, I'd probably be a hippie. The only 'typical' vampiric trait that I show outwardly is a total mistrust of anyone I meet. I've been screwed over too many times, trusted too many people and had them stab me in the back, lie to me, lie about me to my family, cheat me, and steal from me, for me to trust anyone who isn't my husband, my dad, my sister, my grandma, or myself. I don't hate the world. I genuinely care about it. I just don't let the world in anymore.


Title: Re: AVA Discussion: Adoption Of Media/Fiction Aesthetic & Behavioral Stereotypes?
Post by: Rose on August 05, 2014, 12:24:47 pm
To my knowledge, owning a pair of goth boots has nothing to do with vampirism, and certainly does not disqualify someone.