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Religion, Spirituality, & Philosophy => Occult | Magick | Spells | Rituals | Astrology | Divination => Topic started by: masticina on July 19, 2010, 07:28:13 pm



Title: Tarot
Post by: masticina on July 19, 2010, 07:28:13 pm
Right unto the topic

Ah yes tarot divination through laying cards, the cards moved by the hand of the reader. Putting the question into the cards and moving the cards that feel the warmest unto their position. Before one by one flipping them over to read the message.

So lets talk tarot who here does does divination using tarot? Any experience with what decks worked best for them? Maybe a you did find the "standard" rider waite's to be not of your liking. Or did a crowleys deck feel wrong to you? And what deck do you use did you buy it for the images on them originally or because you felt it was right. Where did you buy your deck? Did you get it as a gift?

Spill the beans and join the coffee counter, I promise you the cookies are free!

Right the deck I am using right now is an animal spirit deck, it has nice pictures of the animals on them. And it feels well to use it. I keep it in a wooden box yet having to get myself a silk bag. I cleanse the area every reading first, bless the cards to do the reading then cleanse again to put the cards away safely again. There one cookie for me :) Come and speak out!

Oh and I did saw a rather cute deck, there are many nice decks out there one of the nicest I saw was a vampire deck. Yeah silly but there are two different ones, the right one is truly stunning!


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Darklilone on July 19, 2010, 07:50:02 pm
I don't know a whole lot about it and don't get much of a chance to practice.
I currently have a beginers deck, it doesn't claim a specific theme, though i guess it does. What i don't like about it, is that the back of each card has an upright tree. so if they are reveresed, you can tell, it bothers me. I don't want to know which way the card is facing until i flip it over.
I also have been told, though belief varies, it either has to be given as a gift (which these were) or you have to get them yourself, but either way it's best if you feel a sort of bond with them.
I don't speak with the person who got me the cards, and i never really cared much for the deck itself. i mean i appreciate it and all and are happy i have them, but they were only intended for me to learn, though i guess i could have done that with any deck..
i've seen a couple decks, animal-related, goddess-related and other ones that i've felt i liked.. they just get so expensive :(


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on July 23, 2010, 09:32:40 pm
I don't know a whole lot about it and don't get much of a chance to practice.
I currently have a beginers deck, it doesn't claim a specific theme, though i guess it does. What i don't like about it, is that the back of each card has an upright tree. so if they are reveresed, you can tell, it bothers me. I don't want to know which way the card is facing until i flip it over.
I also have been told, though belief varies, it either has to be given as a gift (which these were) or you have to get them yourself, but either way it's best if you feel a sort of bond with them.
I don't speak with the person who got me the cards, and i never really cared much for the deck itself. i mean i appreciate it and all and are happy i have them, but they were only intended for me to learn, though i guess i could have done that with any deck..
i've seen a couple decks, animal-related, goddess-related and other ones that i've felt i liked.. they just get so expensive :(

Yeah decks aren't cheap but lets be fair they are not bought by everybody and look at the art work, the work put in them. Designing a deck, making the art etc it obviously takes quite a bit to make a deck that attracts many. Now there is another way make your own deck ;) Nice 160grams paper, some good looking wrapping paper for the bag and some lamination and you are done. Well done it still takes time to make your own front cards but yes you can make the yourself.

And the added bonus is that self made magic taste better to YUMMY. Like self made soup is much more effective at getting things done. Erm might have switched those but you get what I mean. Even if you just put numbers on the cards with an arrow to show if a card lays upright or down it still is just fine. As long as you can work with it.

Tarot cards like any other divination tool is yes a tool. Oh and funny story ever questioned about the minor arcana and mayor arcana. Well some decks sell Mayor Arcana only the important point here is that as you look good the Minor Arcana are..playing cards. Yes indeed they are a slightly adjusted set of playing cards.

Anyhow enough for this post this tiger needs to terrorize a certain mouse then sleep *sneaks behind his playmouse*


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: paindancer on July 24, 2010, 09:52:03 am
I used to.

Found I didnt really need the sign posts, but was a major arcana reader only +4 (elemental aces).

As for decks.. I still like the osho zen, and my Geiger set.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Darklilone on July 24, 2010, 11:06:12 am
And the added bonus is that self made magic taste better to YUMMY. Like self made soup is much more effective at getting things done. Erm might have switched those but you get what I mean. Even if you just put numbers on the cards with an arrow to show if a card lays upright or down it still is just fine. As long as you can work with it.

Tarot cards like any other divination tool is yes a tool. Oh and funny story ever questioned about the minor arcana and mayor arcana. Well some decks sell Mayor Arcana only the important point here is that as you look good the Minor Arcana are..playing cards. Yes indeed they are a slightly adjusted set of playing cards.
I might see what i can do. It might just be easier, for me, to save up my money.. then it would mean more with the hard work and knowing that i earned it.
I actually have a little fortune telling book thing. it gives some basic sets and tells you to use a normal deck of playing cards..


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Taris on July 25, 2010, 06:23:06 pm
When I first started in the tarot I was about 15 or 16. I used the Juliet Shaman Burke deck from barnes and nobles which I lost during one of my moves. (Possible I was not meant to continue with the readings?) Since I had bought two decks which I had not found to my liking. The Rider Waite deck was one and the Vampire Deck was the other. Personally I never studied tarot to a great extent nor did I wish to. I guess I sort of read the energy from the different cards as I am rather adept at reading energy. The oddest experience I had with the readings was one where I did it over the phone with a friend of mine. I had shuffled the deck and sort of connected the energies of the two, herself and I, and gone about reshuffling and laying down the cards. I would use the celtic cross style of reading mostly and I used it that night and thus that night I had spooked a friend beyond measure, sadly enough. I had sought the Juliet Shaman Burke deck with no luck before in hopes to continue readings through tarot but could not find one so I let it rest and continued on with other practices. My experience with the tarot so far.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on July 26, 2010, 09:44:28 pm
Fair Fair

One needs not to forget that Tarot cards are a tool. And if a certain deck or hell tarot itself doesn't works for you it doesn't works for you.
Self I use an animal spirit guide tarot as my spiritual path draws me to the ways of nature. I find that it works well with me and that if I do readings that I feel the "heat" of the right card. Also I feel if I shuffle the cards if all is well with the reading. If now I have to do more cleansing and blessings.

I have rider waite laying around but it isn't for me. I actually am giving it away .. internally :) sorry. I like the images but I have no feeling with this deck.
Also I found that the animal guide deck just speaks to me allot better and you know that is what it is about.

There are many nice decks out there best is to handle one see the pictures check if you like it and if there is a booklet with it. To read through it to see if you can understand it a bit. Remember divination, any type of divination has a side of feeling to it. Insight so if you draw cards and feel that the message the BOOK would tell you to convey isn't right many times you are right and the book is just well a book!


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: The Sentinel on July 30, 2010, 12:38:17 pm
I am a tarot diviner and use the Celtic Dragon Tarot, myself. I've found it responds well to me. I tend to do the expanded Celtic Cross layout and it is extremely accurate. The Rider Waite deck and I do not get along, no matter what. For some reason no matter which version of it I use it always makes me feel distinctly uncomfortable.

As Masticina said, there is a lot of intuition involved in tarot reading and occasionally the image on the card is more poignant than the divinitory meaning in the book. However, if you have a real rapport with your cards, there is a good deal of opportunity for you to learn more about them than the book might indicate. However, I have worked with the Celtic Dragon Tarot for around ten years now (I have had the same deck and use only that deck) and have found that over time I have grown to understand it far more and it has become more accurate. 

I think, however, that the cards are merely a conduit for our own thoughts. They are, in my mind, a mirror and nothing more. They reflect whatever is cast upon their surface and while they may give insight and even answer questions, they do not give anything beyond what the reader has. So if the reader has absolutely no inclination, metaphysically, towards divining I would have the inclination to say that their readings would be weak, at best, and mostly they are just playing with a deck of cards. There are many different facets of metaphysics and some people are more strongly predisposed towards some than other.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on July 30, 2010, 01:58:25 pm
I am a tarot diviner and use the Celtic Dragon Tarot, myself. I've found it responds well to me. I tend to do the expanded Celtic Cross layout and it is extremely accurate. The Rider Waite deck and I do not get along, no matter what. For some reason no matter which version of it I use it always makes me feel distinctly uncomfortable.

As Masticina said, there is a lot of intuition involved in tarot reading and occasionally the image on the card is more poignant than the divinitory meaning in the book. However, if you have a real rapport with your cards, there is a good deal of opportunity for you to learn more about them than the book might indicate. However, I have worked with the Celtic Dragon Tarot for around ten years now (I have had the same deck and use only that deck) and have found that over time I have grown to understand it far more and it has become more accurate. 

I think, however, that the cards are merely a conduit for our own thoughts. They are, in my mind, a mirror and nothing more. They reflect whatever is cast upon their surface and while they may give insight and even answer questions, they do not give anything beyond what the reader has. So if the reader has absolutely no inclination, metaphysically, towards divining I would have the inclination to say that their readings would be weak, at best, and mostly they are just playing with a deck of cards. There are many different facets of metaphysics and some people are more strongly predisposed towards some than other.

Words spoken true there and a trained and able seer is able to go without tools. Yet at times even having the tools seems to put trust in the one you read for. I did had times that cards said A but I felt B.. I did speak out B after telling the one I read for that A was drawn. And it's possible meanings..

Divining is something with feeling yes! And yes Rider Waite... I feel nothing for it! So my suggestions stick if one finds a deck that works with them more power to them!

So how do we deal with we have a particular bad message in the cards and our insights. What if we know bad is bound to come.. are we to say it? Are we to guide the one we read for to understand the coming changes?


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Kim on August 03, 2010, 08:50:20 pm
i'm still a beginer when it comes to tarot cards and all; I've only been doing it for about 2 years. I always started out with just the simple 3 card layout and I've slowly worked my way to different layouts. Currently I'm using what's called an Eclipse Spread alot (I don't know if that's what everyone calls it).

I used to have a Healing Angels deck but that didn't work too well, it just didn't feel 'good' I guess. That's really the only way I can describe it lol I've had Fenestra Tarot for a little over a year and it was working swimmingly until I decided to be nice and let my boyfriend use it...ever since then it just hasn't felt like it used to...I'm looking for a new deck now. But I bought the Fenestra Tarot mainly because I looked at it and I felt like out of all the decks there this was the one that I should get, when I picked it up it just felt right. I got it at barns and nobles.
[/quote]
So how do we deal with we have a particular bad message in the cards and our insights. What if we know bad is bound to come.. are we to say it? Are we to guide the one we read for to understand the coming changes?
[/quote]

As for getting a bad message, I've gotten a few. Whenever I saw things happening that would lead to the bad message happening I just changed it whenever I could. Sometimes it can't be changed though. Like when I moved to the East Coast, the cards I got were The Devil, The Tower and The Hanged Man upside down. The question was about how my mom was going to take me moving so far away...that one, I couldn't change and I didn't really care to change it.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on August 03, 2010, 11:35:29 pm
Thank you for your reply Kim :)
Personal Experiences makes a rich stew indeed.

I see well yeah seems a deck calls for you or not. As you in older posts in this threat well I can't get much with the rider waite's deck.

Ah you let another handle your deck, mmm troubled. A deck takes your energy as signature and to get it back to working again I might know a few tricks. Your boyfriend might had the best of meanings but the cards might just well not trusted him and locked up. To re awaken your cards to you do a banishment to cleanse them of the energy. Then do a blessing on them letting your energy flow in them again and they ought to be adjusted to you again.

Of course you can get more information if needed, just ask :)

Ah wow erm yeah the cards definitely wanted to tell you that things would break...


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Kim on August 04, 2010, 12:19:17 pm
I don't know how to cleanse it. I can cleanse a room, is it the same thing? I really need to start using them again lol or at least studying about it all more. But could you tell me a good way to cleanse them possibly?


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on August 04, 2010, 12:26:38 pm
Same method :) banish those nasty energies that else wise would skewer your readings. Cleanse the cards just like you would do anything else. [unless it is burning them that is a bad idea ;)]

Then put a blessing on the cards and get to work with them again.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Kim on August 04, 2010, 12:45:56 pm
Lol ok I'll refrain from burning the deck lol


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: The Sentinel on August 10, 2010, 04:54:46 pm
So how do we deal with we have a particular bad message in the cards and our insights. What if we know bad is bound to come.. are we to say it? Are we to guide the one we read for to understand the coming changes?

Well, I would look at that and consider whether or not the person we are reading for is ready or able to hear that at this time. There are, however, no specific "bad" cards. All the cards in the deck have good sides to some extent. Yes, there are negative cards, but usually if you look at the whole spread (unless you happen to have 15 copies of "The Tower" and they all come out at once... o.o;) there is usually more to it than "You're doomed. Thanks for playing."

This is actually one of the reasons I rarely read cards for myself or for others - there are many, many times where I just plain don't want to know.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on August 10, 2010, 06:28:24 pm
So how do we deal with we have a particular bad message in the cards and our insights. What if we know bad is bound to come.. are we to say it? Are we to guide the one we read for to understand the coming changes?

Well, I would look at that and consider whether or not the person we are reading for is ready or able to hear that at this time. There are, however, no specific "bad" cards. All the cards in the deck have good sides to some extent. Yes, there are negative cards, but usually if you look at the whole spread (unless you happen to have 15 copies of "The Tower" and they all come out at once... o.o;) there is usually more to it than "You're doomed. Thanks for playing."

This is actually one of the reasons I rarely read cards for myself or for others - there are many, many times where I just plain don't want to know.

Hehehe true and yes the tower is not a negative card more a rather strong card. And well it is also a good practice to decide if a reading at the time is suitable. Just the same reason you ought not to do energy work while mad or having another strong emotion that blinds judgement.



Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: The Sentinel on August 10, 2010, 08:55:42 pm
Exactly. However, if you get fifteen copes if the Tower you're SO doomed, lol!


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Adevarat Singe on August 11, 2010, 02:42:03 am
I just got back into tarot. I am using the Mystic Dreamers deck. I tend to have better luck with the Celtic Cross spread


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on August 11, 2010, 11:29:48 am
I just got back into tarot. I am using the Mystic Dreamers deck. I tend to have better luck with the Celtic Cross spread

A rather big spread many cards that influence each other. Though I agree it does gives many insights! It does what it does but you need to take your time with the Celtic Cross! How more cards how more influences :)

I love to go on those websites where you see all those decks. Beautiful images sometimes :)


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: The Sentinel on August 11, 2010, 12:16:40 pm
I use the expanded Celtic Cross layout, myself. I prefer all the influences and nuance because I feel it gives a more complete answer than a three-card or a single-card draw.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Adevarat Singe on August 12, 2010, 02:09:31 am
I have had problems with the 3 card being rather obscure and not related. Maybe Im doing it wrong. I would appreciate any advice that yall are willing to give :)


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Soulshroude on August 12, 2010, 05:02:09 am
Cartomancy is something that I am very familiar with.  The wise ones used to state that the tarot chooses its channeler, that one cannot use the tarot unless a deck is "given" to them to use before they can buy one for themselves.  Although that tradition died some centuries ago, I know a few who still abide by it.

The ancient gypsies used regular playing cards for the benefit of Cartomancy, again, I know a few who trust a regular deck of playing cards for their divination rather then an esoteric style deck.  About 99.9% of the time, the cards or card, depending on if the individual is using a classic lay-out or one card divination, is accurate.  I usually depend on Higher Arcana cards for personal benefit rather then just the "wands", "swords", "coins", or "pentacles".  Usually depending on the question asked, the divination is rather simple.  But, for the deeper more philosophical thinkers, a regular spread is not the best course of action.

It really depends on the purpose when dealing with the cards, more or less.  I used to think that the cards were energetically linked to a persons spirit or soul, but recent tests have confirmed that this is really not the case, but a case that the Universe speaks through the cards for the benefit of the listener.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: The Sentinel on August 12, 2010, 11:10:31 am
I have had problems with the 3 card being rather obscure and not related. Maybe Im doing it wrong. I would appreciate any advice that yall are willing to give :)

Well, there are several possible reasons as far as I can tell:

1) You aren't asking the right questions or they are answering more important questions that you didn't ask (my cards do that sometimes).

2) You are not being clear or direct as far as your intent, are you scatterbrained and kind of out of it when you read? If so that can definitely reflect in the cards.

3) The deck and you just don't communicate on the same wavelength, try another deck of cards.

4) You aren't meant to read tarot. Tarot isn't something that just anyone can pick up and do accurately, it's also not something that can be trained if you don't have the predisposition. it's just something you can do or you can't - that's all there is to it.

Remember that tarot cards are a mirror, they reflect the reader. If you are conflicted, confused, distracted, or otherwise unfocused they may not give you anything useful or insightful and may just babble incoherently. That is a very real possibility.

However, that said, the other reasons listed are also equally right possibilities. If the cards aren't working, try another divination method such as a pendulum (which is pretty universal), runes, i ching, or various other types of divination of you are dead set on it. However, as I said before, divination is an art and can't really be taught and not everyone can do it. Just like not everyone has the gift of music or the talent for writing so don't feel that you are any lesser for not having it if you don't. You definitely have a talent, or many talents, that you may not yet have discovered. That discovery process is a lifelong thing, so don't stress over it too much.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: NyteMuse on August 12, 2010, 11:43:08 am
I have had problems with the 3 card being rather obscure and not related. Maybe Im doing it wrong. I would appreciate any advice that yall are willing to give :)

Well, there are several possible reasons as far as I can tell:

1) You aren't asking the right questions or they are answering more important questions that you didn't ask (my cards do that sometimes).

2) You are not being clear or direct as far as your intent, are you scatterbrained and kind of out of it when you read? If so that can definitely reflect in the cards.

3) The deck and you just don't communicate on the same wavelength, try another deck of cards.

4) You aren't meant to read tarot. Tarot isn't something that just anyone can pick up and do accurately, it's also not something that can be trained if you don't have the predisposition. it's just something you can do or you can't - that's all there is to it.

Or...
5) You don't resonate well with the celtic cross layout. I'm a pretty darned good reader myself but I don't use celtic cross. There are hundreds on hundreds of spread variations out there. If CC isn't working, try another one ;)


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Taris on August 12, 2010, 01:59:59 pm
I loved the celtic cross layout when I was using the Tarot. Honestly, I rarely used any other spread unless I would just lay cards and read into it. There are a lot of people who do things different. Ive done the three card spread before and worked my way out from there. Linking 2 cards to past present and future. Other times I use the cards simply to initiate my reading into them directly. I was rather good with past and present reading, as well as the emotions behind the past and the present.

It is difficult reading for friends and moreso for yourself. You will be biased at times to read a certain way or perceive it a certain way simply because its you or a close friend. The problem I find is differentiating a bias from a pure read so to say.

On another note glad to see a good thread with minimal bickering :P Hopefully more like these pop up.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Adevarat Singe on August 13, 2010, 01:05:30 am
thank you so much for your insight :) I am not new to tarot. I used to be really proficient...just took a 10 yr break and came back to them. I am still trying to get to know this deck. I think alot has to do with the fact of concentration. this house is hectic and I never get a moments peace.
I actually do use a pendulum as well and do well with it. I just missed cards :)

I appreciate all of you :) thank you


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on September 26, 2010, 03:30:17 pm
I return, like a gyspy I sometimes move on to other places.

I the time that I was away I have done more readings and I have found a method that works for me. Crazily enough I could have guessed it before [as I am a chaotic person]. I draw first a card for the person themself. This is the begin of a story the cards will begin to tell me. As I begin to ask questions and draw cards for those questions [as I of course do a reading for someone else] the cards them self whisper at me what path the story has to take. So instead of a Past-Now-Future. I begin with the person...and I ask the question after helping the one who wants a reading make the right question. The second card is drawn. From this comes another question and so on.

It works pretty well that way. Though trust me it won't be a method for everybody as it is really allot of soft work. You need to work with the spirits and the person you do the reading for. Make it a real experience and make a nice story, or a gloomy one as sometimes the cards show dark things, aiding them in understanding what is shown.

Oh and I did buy a Vampires of the Eternal Night deck, it is beautiful looking rather gloomy but vampire fans love that. To bad the card stock is erm.. not as good. It is a bit odd card stock.

How ever it is nice that the readings now guide themself along. It is the one I read for, me and the spirits. I can only do about 2 readings though.. usually 4-5 cards. Takes quite a bit of energy :!


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Oblivionburns on January 02, 2011, 05:27:15 pm
I mostly use the CC spread too.  I find more often than not, my trusty-dusty Rider deck works well when doing general reading for others.  However, I use the Crowley deck for more personal matters (myself, husband, mother-in-law & brother-in-law).  In either case, I think intuition plays a huge part in the clarity of the message!  My husband has playfully shown the Rider deck to guests who invariably ask for a spread, which I do, only to have them looking at me queerly.  I think complete strangers (friends of a friend ususally) are under the imperssion there's some kind of "funny business" going on!  LOL

It seems that the cards themselves have a quite perverse sense of humor after 2 readings whether they're for the same person asking questions or not.  A mirror of my own black humor, perhaps?  The spreads will conclusively show ten out of eleven of the same cards as before, but in changing positions!  My husband & I have played this out time & again, and it happens without fail!  It reminds me of "playful poltergeist" stories. Has anyone else had similar occurrances, and if so, what do you think causes this?   :D


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on January 03, 2011, 10:50:44 pm
I mostly use the CC spread too.  I find more often than not, my trusty-dusty Rider deck works well when doing general reading for others.  However, I use the Crowley deck for more personal matters (myself, husband, mother-in-law & brother-in-law).  In either case, I think intuition plays a huge part in the clarity of the message!  My husband has playfully shown the Rider deck to guests who invariably ask for a spread, which I do, only to have them looking at me queerly.  I think complete strangers (friends of a friend ususally) are under the imperssion there's some kind of "funny business" going on!  LOL

It seems that the cards themselves have a quite perverse sense of humor after 2 readings whether they're for the same person asking questions or not.  A mirror of my own black humor, perhaps?  The spreads will conclusively show ten out of eleven of the same cards as before, but in changing positions!  My husband & I have played this out time & again, and it happens without fail!  It reminds me of "playful poltergeist" stories. Has anyone else had similar occurrances, and if so, what do you think causes this?   :D

Right as you say sometimes the spirits like to Joke. If you ask to much or you know ask the same question again.. they kinda can get giddy. Drawing cards within the same field of meaning..

Once I did ask for an extra card feeling already it probably wasn't going to work and I did get indeed a "Joke" card. Very unfitting the situation and obviously a sign that the reading was done!


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Oblivionburns on January 06, 2011, 05:53:35 pm
Yeah, Masticina, I always stop once I've done 2 readings now that it's been conclusively shown to be a message from the ethers;  "Stop wasting our time!"  LOL  Thanks for the response!  I like that term, the Joke card!


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: masticina on January 06, 2011, 08:50:05 pm
Yeah, Masticina, I always stop once I've done 2 readings now that it's been conclusively shown to be a message from the ethers;  "Stop wasting our time!"  LOL  Thanks for the response!  I like that term, the Joke card!

Oh yes the spirits are like that :)
I love how serious some people are about spirits. Half of the time the spirits are having more fun then the people that handle those spirits.


Title: Re: Tarot
Post by: Oblivionburns on January 07, 2011, 04:03:37 pm
I've often entertained the notion that the spirits may be attracted to certain people for reasons unknown.  I think we amuse them more than we are able to utilize any information we're able to eke out of them!  They seem overly capricious, at least it appeared so to me when I was in my Conjuring phase.  Invocations & such had to be worded very carefully or HELLO the Joke was on me!  I don't meddle in such things any longer, as I have too much to lose:  a wonderful husband, cozy home of our own, the chance for improvement in working life, etc.  When I was messing about for quick results I was bouncing from friend's house to friend's house, trying not to overstay my welcome at any one place, and always struggling, so asking for help from spirits who may have begrudgingly given it didn't seem like such an outlandish idea.  What's a little inconvenience when I got what I wanted?  I see things differently now, & work with Tarot to clarify courses of action.