Atlanta Vampire Alliance [AVA]

Vampires & Vampirism => Vampire Community & Subcultural Discussion => Topic started by: Merticus on July 14, 2010, 08:52:33 pm



Title: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Merticus on July 14, 2010, 08:52:33 pm
State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010:  Declining Participation Levels?

There have been a variety of threads posted to forums and groups in recent months and years discussing the possibility that the vampire community may be declining, shifting, fluctuating, and/or contracting.  The following relates to online participation in the 'community'; not the numbers of individuals who identify as 'real vampires'.

Decline Of The OVC - http://www.vcmb.org/family/index.php?showtopic=16440&hl=
Contraction Within The Community - http://www.atlantavampirealliance.com/forum/index.php?topic=154.0
Vampires:  Our Dying Subculture - http://www.darknessembraced.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6
Is The Online Vampire Community Dissolving? - http://www.darknessembraced.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=813

There have been noticeable overall activity declines in Community Forums, Yahoo Groups, MySpace Groups, Meetup Groups, NING Groups, LiveJournal Groups, etc.  At the same time there have been noticeable overall activity increases with Twitter, Facebook, web chats, and other direct peer-to-peer networking.  Granted there are exceptions to everything and not all social networking and information sites have seen declines in participation.

Quite a few explanations have been offered...

- What decline?
- There is no decline; the community is just participating elsewhere.
- The decline is temporary; community participation is cyclic.
- Everyone is spread out to more sites and groups than before.
- There are fewer established forums, groups, and web sites in existence today than five or ten years ago and this has left many displaced.
- Leaders and elders have left the community and this has left a void in mentorship and resource sites.
- Leaders and elders are disinterested or condescending towards newly awakened vampires.
- The global economy is affecting participation.
- The internet is evolving in a manner which is decreasing posts and articles while increasing real-time discussion.
- The vampire community is an aging demographic and younger members are not coming along at the rates they once did.
- Twilight, TrueBlood, and the recent media attention have driven vampires underground.
- Twilight and TrueBlood fans will soon infiltrate our community and everyone is hiding.
- There is a growing divide between those who view vampire as a condition and those who view it as metaphysical or spiritual.
- The vampire community is growing faster offline than online.
- Not enough resources are available to connect vampires offline and thus they are remaining solitary or leaving the community.
- The increased quality of posts and discussions in the vampire community has discouraged would-be trolls and lurkers from participating.
- The vampire community has reached a plateau of information or knowledge base and has lost considerable momentum.
- The increase of publications and information available about real vampirism has created less of a need to participate or seek support from others.
- Vampirism is evolving and/or blending with other communities.


In 2007 I compiled data on activity levels of the major Yahoo Groups in order to chart participation trends in the vampire community.  The Yahoo Groups represent the longest running and often most active sites for the vampire community dating back to 1998.  Three years later I've now updated those charts and with few exceptions the declining trend remains the same.  I've also compared posting-to-account levels on a variety of the remaining vampire community forums (we've lost many in recent years) and found anywhere from a 8% to 40% or greater decline in overall postings for vampirism and support specific topics (not off-topic/introductions/etc.).  More interestingly, I've identified up to an average 20-25 post decrease in the number of posts per registered user account compared to levels in 2005 and 2006 for several forums.  While there are greater numbers of users on these sites there are considerably less material contributions to the groups and forums.  NING, Facebook, MySpace, LiveJournal, and Meetup also share similar declines and the recent move of some NING sites to Spruz and some Meetup Groups to Facebook Groups failed to match the posting levels and growth of the original.

What are your thoughts on participation levels in the vampire community?  Are we growing, staying the same, or shrinking in numbers?  If we're declining in numbers but increasing in quality of resources and information is this a desired trade-off?  Please share your thoughts and opinions.

Smaller Chart Images:  http://www.suscitatio.com/images/YahooVampireGroupActivity1998-2010.jpg

Yahoo Discussion Groups/eLists - Activity Levels Composite Chart 1998 To 2010:
(http://www.suscitatio.com/images/YahooVampireGroupActivity1998-2010FullFormat.jpg)



(http://www.veritasvosliberabit.com/vvc/gallery/2_14_07_10_8_58_53.jpg)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 19, 2010, 01:45:29 am
Greetings. 

I must say, I am slightly surprised that there has not been any responses to this post as of yet.  At any rate, I would like to take the time to share my opinion on this matter. 

I came to the OVC within the same week that I awoke as a vampire over 4 years ago.  Since that time, I have endured a spectrum of experiences as a member of 4-5 different forums within the Real Vampire web rings and the members there.

From my experience, I agree with the theory that community participation is cyclic, not only in the OVC, but in life in general.  I feel that life adheres to an overall ebb and flow dynamic.  More specifically, I feel that some of the reasoning behind a cyclic effect in the OVC has to do with old generations finding certain realities that are displeasing and/or disconcerting to them, while new waves of awakening vampires begin the process of these discoveries from the beginning again.

I feel that in this community, vampiric  interactions are full of emotional drive within interpersonal relationships and friendships.  Where energetic manipulation is involved, I feel there is a whole new layer added to the dynamic of the interactions of those who are vampiric, on top of the typical dynamics with those who are not of any vampiric or otherkin affiliation.  I have experienced personally and objectively from others the consistent awareness each person seems to have regarding their power of intention, and how that awareness creates an understanding of being able to influence others, even through a computer screen.  There have been different topics in different forums regarding the opinions of time/space, and I have found one major perspective of this topic to be true; The ability to manipulate another persons energy is not stopped when a computer is involved between two or more people.  Occurrences have happened repeatedly regarding the energy levels of different folks involved in various situations with others that have proven to be harmful in many different ways.  I am of the opinion that the world of energetic manipulation is real, it is dangerous, and I feel it is one of the major reasons why there has been a decline in activity.  I feel that many people cannot deal with that constant threat of being energetically taken advantage of, and the only real defense seems to be to take themselves off the radar as it were. 
Please note:  I am not saying the decline in activity of the OVC is due to psychic vampires.  I am specifically siting the *abuse* of these abilities, from my personal experience. 

The other major topic I want to discuss involves Elitism, and the negative and dangerous effects I feel this has on all vampires, online and offline alike.  I have seen a recurrent pattern since my time of awakening that expressing myself typically leads to a dark path, filled with suspicion, alienation, degradation, judgement, egoism, and elitism, to name a few things.  I am going to get daring here and specifically cite a webforum I feel has cornered the market on this mentality and behavior, and that is the VCMB.  I feel that site highlights many of the dangers causing division within our community, with the consistent examples of appalling amounts of degradation to the new members of the site.  I feel that regardless of if someone is a "poser" or not, nothing gives someone the right to throw away human decency, and allow all members of a forum a chance to rip them apart, like that is going to solve ANYTHING.  I see the practice of having a "troll bin" on any forum as a disgraceful attempt at justifying these poor behaviors, and creates a mentality that throwing someone in a cage and wheeling them to the center of town to be hung while a crowd of people throw trash and rotten fruit is okay.  There is an existence of such a thing as dignity, and I feel in some places such as that forum, the concept is lost.  Why do I bring it up as something to be spoken out loud about?  Because I feel the message it sends to not only the members of the OVC, but the newly awakened vampires is most certainly the wrong one, as many of them typically put up and shut up, out of wanting to be accepted.  This in turn creates a dynamic that it must be the right thing to do to pride ones self on being an elitist and judgemental person, and as well, the owners and thus the implied mentors of that group not only practice those things, but use it as a disciplinary measure.  It gives moderators of all these communities a significant amount of power, and with that, a significant amount of ability to abuse that power, when its able to go unchecked, as it has been.  Eventually, no one is ready to speak up about anything, because if it is anything different than the views of the moderators or "inner circle" of members, that person will automatically be chastised, degraded, and ripped apart, including things as simple as a lowercase i as opposed to a capital one. 

Give me a break.  Are we really wondering why there is a decline? 

Furthermore, I feel as though the more I get to know the community through web chats or PMs with members of all various standings, the more I find an overwhelming sense of secrets, and also a strong sense that I am being watched, over the course of my time in the OVC.  Again, transparency doesn't seem very obvious to me.  I wouldn't mind so much of being watched, if only I knew why.  Unfortunately I have found that many of the full members of the community who seem to be quite genuine in citing themselves as a real vampire, are also sometimes those who have the least transparency, and exhibit signs that they practice indulgence of the darkest sides of their natures.  Regardless, how am I to really know? 

Furthermore, the older and more experienced mods seem to have their own beef with one another, and unfortunately I think that bleeds onto the newer members, and the newly awakened.  Subsequently, it leads to those various moderators keeping their own processes and "ways" of their lifestyle not only more defined in contrast to other mods, but it ends up causing disruption for the advice that is really needed in the end to the newly awakened.  I feel it is they who really suffer as a result, and I feel that is significantly overlooked.  Many mods seem to be so fed up with it after several years or decades of dealing with it that they sink into the shadows.  I am beginning to understand why, as more time goes by. 

I'll also take the time to state for the record that I am not simply trying to use newly awakened vampires as my soapbox, or as a crutch.  Furthermore, this is not an attempt I have created to try to seek revenge from the specific treatment I endured personally, but it is something I have witnessed in the lives of others as well, repeatedly, as I have stated. 

One of my bottom lines here is that honesty seems to be something not able to be had in this community.  At the very least not without a severe backlash, of which few people would like to risk or chance. 

I've heard many opinions about our community, one of them being that nothing just ever gets solved. 

I support acceptance of individuality, of human flaws, of change and differences of opinion.  What I didn't appreciate within my awakening was help for the chaotic and mysterious experiences I was enduring to be held hostage over my head because I didn't act the way someone else saw fit.  Sometimes this is needed to put a fledgling in check, but not to the degree that I have seen and felt.  Everyone makes an ass out of themselves in the beginning.  Or at least, many of us have.  I noticed in the most recent Global Chat, some people had dubbed it a name, the "stupid phase".  It's understood this happens.  To capitalize on that is not being a Moderator, its being a Jerk. 

Lets get it out in the open, and lets get our act together, most of all for those young ones.  They may sound out of their mind, but they really only have the same thing that the posers have to go off of before they come to the forums, and that is things like Twilight and the rest of the stereotypes of Hollywood.  Of course they are going to ask if real vampires sparkle, or if they can fly, or if they are going to die if they don't get what they need.  They don't know any better, and they have a longing to be accepted.  And furthermore, vampiric nature is NOT an easy thing to cope with in the beginning, and I think we can *all* vouch for that. 

Im just sick and tired of being judged.  If you want to take my words and use them as a weapon against me, you are welcome to do so.  Have at it.  I've reached a point where I just don't care anymore.  I decided to come on here and state my opinion, at my own risk.  At the very least, give me some credit for that alone. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Darklilone on July 19, 2010, 01:16:44 pm
I don't have much of an opinion on the matter.
Is participation in the Online Vampire Community declining? I don't know.
I joined on the 'outskirts' of sorts about or over 4 years ago. Those small, and not really connected to the Community, forums pretty much have died over the years. Interest at least seems to have declined there. I have gained admin status on those 'mini-forums' and watch for new members regularly. while posts are near to none, i see at least one new member every day, to couple of days.

Over the course of those 4 years i've joined other various online forums, more closely connected to the OVC. Participation in those, though i've had considerably less time as a member, seem to have been about the same since i joined. Though it also ebs and flows.

So, i can't say if it's declining as a whole, or if it's just hitting a low point, sure some forums have lessened in activity, but i'm not and have not been involved enough to feel that i have a solid, well-informed opinion about it.
With the Twilight, True-Blood and other vampire-related media out there, there's bound to be curiosity, but with so much information and FAQs available, maybe they just are reading, with little need or desire to post and respond?
Posts may seem to be declining but how is membership overall? How often are these sites being visited or viewed?
How exactly are we defining "activity" here? (in case i missed it)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on July 19, 2010, 01:39:13 pm
Wow, sounds like you had a bad social interaction there.  I've been a member of VCMB for a long time, and it is actually one of the MOST accepting and accommodating vamp message boards out there.  All forums have these issues...I hope you realize that?  A troll bin is there so that members can get their aggression out on those who break the rules without disrupting the rest of the forum.  I have one on our Psion Guild forum as well.  You have to do quite a bit in order to have your post lobbed into the troll bin.  There is also a rants area, where people can feel free to lay into each other and make their opinions known in as vulgar a fashion as they please.  Again, it is to prevent that from happening in OTHER areas of the forum.  There is absolutely no obligation for ANYONE to ever click the link to either of those two areas.  People are not always going to get along.  Pretending otherwise is pointless.

Forums have rules.  Some people just can't seem to follow rules.  It's an ongoing issue.  I don't think there is any need to be sympathetic to those who refuse to follow rules, lol.

But really, off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single message board, including this one, that is more kindly to newcomers, or friendlier.  If some individuals treats a person harshly, 3 others step up to their defense. 

The basic problem you're also talking about--older vampires, tired of silliness, taking out their frustration on ignorant newbies--isn't brand new.  The supposed decline in the OVC is brand new.  So I don't see why the same behavior that has been around since the 90s should suddenly become the primary issue now.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: masticina on July 19, 2010, 01:42:58 pm
Ah yes the issue of participation levels. In my Introduction post I already have told that I am like the waning moon sometimes. Life for me goes through cycles sometimes I need to put my attention on one thing and sometimes another. This also means that I "wander"  and " travel"  through the forums I am a member off. Some see me once each 3 months if they are lucky.

I feel that with the summer vacations for many many members.. it is inevitable that less activity is there. And less to resonance them self with hence less reason to post. The waning and gaining is a force in nature we are bound to as much as anybody else. As vampires though we are a bit more sensitive.

In short I agree with that there has been a slowing of the community it is a great time for learning. For studying for self growth and once the cycle goes up again we shall meet again more learned and understanding.

Masticina Akicta


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: ClawOfBastet on July 19, 2010, 04:20:53 pm
Only reason I haven't responded is because I was still waiting on my forum membership to be approved (which it just did yesterday!).

Though I really don't have to really say. I've been trying to get into the vampire community since 2004. Every forum I have signed up for seems to just... die off. Or noone wanted to really talk to me or just... I honestly don't know.

I read about all these people stating of great times of forum and meetings in the past, but I never have been able to get to one. Now that I am, I'm kicked in the face with lack of anyone doing it anymore and just feel I was really unfortunate since it seems like I'll never get to know what all the older people got to experience when the community was in boom.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 19, 2010, 05:53:31 pm
I can agree with you SangSavvy. The other side that is missing from your talk of elitism through out the community in general is the judgmental views. I for one was told once by a group that I was obviously not a vampire because of not conducting myself in a manner that they were in agreement with; I was too polite most times it would seem for their taste. This making judgements can run off a person who otherwise should belong.
There is another segment that I would like to add as well that might be skimming off like so much slag; the ones that have been baldfaced lying to fit in to an edgy group. That is one downfall with online interaction, anyone can say whatever they want and there is no easy verification. From what I see out of everyday people, the idea of vampires in becoming more accepted as just something else rather than the "super-evil devil spawn nasty dead thing" that was the view before. That leads back to why some have been pretending from the beginning; it gets attention, and most often they were the types that only could understand negative attention. There has been the other type as well that it is fun the play pretend online. This type is not seeing that as fun anymore now that they can play pretend on Facebook and reach a larger audience.
If it is my top three list of annoying people leaving I have no problem with that. That list would be this; first, the psychologically unstable, them that had no power as a victim at some point in their lives and see being a vampire as taking that power back, or those that have real problems determining their fantasy from the reality; second, the pretender, because life is better when people think they are interesting and wildly different from everyone else, even if it is only online; third, the "life-styler" that plays the part and gets attention that way so that they can feel special as a parody of their own lives.
I do agree that we need to get some better information out there and get the spotlight off of the pretenders. That can not be done hiding behind code names; and some have realized that long ago. Me? I'm at a point where it's not going to mater much if people know who I am; as some may have noticed when Merticus posted those magazine articles I came across a week or two ago. (I should get an apology in there for the bad quality while I'm thinking about it too...) I make jewelry and my business is not going to be affected by someone thinking I'm nuts, if thats what they want to think, most artists have been when you come down to it; in fact, it might even help sales. At the same time I'm not likely to push that on everyone soon. There are those that know because they have asked or I had a reason to talk to them about it.
(Before anyone mentions it: yes I do realize I semi-decried Facebook and I use it.)

I did want to address the idea of "troll folders" on forums before I end this; they are just an excuse. The admins don't have to really deal with punishment of members that are truly causing problems; as was done here with two individuals not long ago. At the same time the members have less responsibility to think about what they say as it will just be put in a special place and they can cary on with no consequences. This will end up causing more problems, and more work for the admins and moderators in the end; as I said, there are some that enjoy negative attention, and a "troll folder" does just that by putting those that have been nasty enough on display in a special place.

Thanks for reading,
Joseph MacGonegal
dba: Demzon Creations
Demzon Creations Tracker blog (http://demzon.blogspot.com)
Facebook: Demzon


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: sandmanbrian777 on July 19, 2010, 07:15:37 pm
Greetings:

Numbers ..numbers...can they be analyzed to show anything you want?
In studying Growth and Decline patterns in various socities since the dawn of recorded history in the form of fired clay tablets
it seems patterns do emerge.   I agree with points made in previous posts.  Some forums have a group dynamic in which the Admins
edit or fail to release posts because it doesn't fit into thier subjective interpretations.  One Website accepted my published article and had
individuals look at it from over 20 countries.  I know this because the Editor checked the magazines article useage by the amount and
location of those looking at it.  But the website for the article deletes the old issue magazines due to the advertizers not
wishing to show old prices for their Locks and Keys. 

The article was about the Egyptian Empires Ankh and how the Vatican used the same traditonal beliefs to explain the Popes Crossed Keys. 
Yes I quoted the Bible and compared each entry with the same Egyptian historical interpretations.
So the article could no longer be accessed when the new edition of the magazine came out  in the next Quarter.   To solve this I
cut and pasted the article onto the same Vamp forum.  It was declined because they were worried about copyrights.  After explaining I held
the copyright and the Editor OK'd the follow-on release I ran into further problems.  I was informed that too many Biblical quotes appeared? 
My article was denied even though it was on the forum for 3 months before.  Several forum members wrote and said they enjoyed the
information and asked for notification of any more articles I wrote.

Due to this interpretation and other issues with my posts I stopped posting.  Actually every post I made there after was met with criticism.
Now I just concentrate on researching and submitting  my original articles for publication instead of banging heads.  The last post I made was
giving some information about the "hard knocks" of getting into the writers market and having your articles published.  May I state that some
appear to enjoy the power of rejecting or accepting posts for unkown and subjective reasons.    So why do some decline to post or interact
with some forums ?

Additionaly manners have taken several steps back.  If a person provides some insight to the problems others are facing and tries to help them
because they have undergone similar experiences the only reply returned is Zero?
So why provide any other information or sharing of experiences ?  I became aware of awakening back in the late 1960's when the community
was tiny and the means to interact was severly limited.  Others who were around for decades prior to myself helped, and I thought they were
really ancient  in terms of my short life up to that point.  Now I find myself in the reverse position.  But the dynamics have changed and 99%
of those seeking information won't bother to say the magic words of "thank you"  It seems that asking is all that is required with no follow-up
or any sort of appreciation what-so-ever.  Just a general responce such as "thanks to all those who replied"  Mean while only 3 others replied. 
I know it takes a massive effort to reply to 3 other people who took the time to provide some sort of feedback to help others?   

Brian ...........................................V""V....................
*****************************************************************





 



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Dantess on July 19, 2010, 07:26:13 pm
I can understand the frustration you feel, but I have never had a problem with anyone maybe a small quarrel with someone, but it was more of a misunderstanding if anything. I have never felt as accepted anywhere as I do here, and they offer loads of information for others to easily see. My fiance had a really bad fight with someone on another forum, that's why the troll bin is in need.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Criophix on July 19, 2010, 07:54:37 pm
Although numbers are interesting its hard to really say if the OVC is growing or declining.  The internet is a vast and almost unending place where if you dig enough you find a wealth of information.  Posts and numbers also don't quantify if the community is growing or shrinking.  I can recall back to the Order of the Crimson Tongue on yahoo which had 10,000 members and all it was was spam mail for products.

As to progress in the positive and negative growth.  There are a number of niche groups on Ning that took off and a few when forced with paying chose to open their own sites.  I know that a majority of the older individuals who've dealt with the community over the years have retreated away from the open and have gone into private forums or offline community groups.  Some individuals have become trolls in forums simply there to see if anything new comes about.  Others have become private forsaking all online contact.  These groups also have a surprising wealth of knowledge and interaction which would put some to shame.

In a world with so many connections and privacy becoming a standard of the past online communities find themselves exposed.  I will take for instance myself.  I work in a very public job.  Say I moved companies and left my email address on my application and they decided to Google it.  Just with my name Criophix alone there are ten pages and five of which relate to vampires which are posts on private forums.  This could bar someone from a job.  I've known a many a individual to drop from the community because of this and change their nickname and sn for fear of connecting the dots.

To the treatment from the moderators a variety of boards have a habit of forcing their teachings and ideals among those who are new in our community (vampires or no).  I can't say this is right or wrong.  I'm not here to judge.  I do note however this causes conflict between individuals looking to join another house or group.  Its very confusing going into some groups when I was younger and having The Black Veil posted and yet topics relating to the hatred and bashing of the man who made it.

I think with this data provided groups, houses, covens, or what ever you wish to call them should step back and ask questions on how they can become more productive, provide a more enriching experience, and help further their own groups image as well.  I think its also important to note that if the community is shrinking or growing is it for the best?  Are we trimming the fat or loosing who we are to hypocrisy?  '

Sincerely
Katac Cerrus Criophix
 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 19, 2010, 09:53:45 pm
Greetings again.

I would like to take the time to respond to a couple of the replies here. 

WingedWolf, you said:

"A troll bin is there so that members can get their aggression out on those who break the rules without disrupting the rest of the forum.  I have one on our Psion Guild forum as well.  You have to do quite a bit in order to have your post lobbed into the troll bin.  There is also a rants area, where people can feel free to lay into each other and make their opinions known in as vulgar a fashion as they please.  Again, it is to prevent that from happening in OTHER areas of the forum.  There is absolutely no obligation for ANYONE to ever click the link to either of those two areas."

I would like to ask you why you think its necessary to have this practice instated, rather than the moderators and full members of a forum taking responsibilty to have some compassion and mindfulness for another person.  As I said, its called dignity, as well as integrity.  My opinion is that the solution to curb problems from happening on a forum is not to allow it in one area.  That is like telling a group of wifebeaters, "Well, us congressmen came to a decision.  You can beat your wife....but just.......do it over there in the designated areas.....sometimes we'll come in and offer you a hand with a billyclub or two!  Sound good?  Fab." 

Furthermore, citing the "choice" factor as part of your defense is even more appalling to me.  That is also like saying, "Hey wifebeaters, just so you know, some people will come to the edge of your designated areas and watch you for a while.  Don't mind them, its free game.  Just....Have Fun.  :-)  " 

I will ALSO add, while I am being so up front with you, have you ever been in a situation where you were not on the "inner circle" of members on that site? 

You also said: 
"People are not always going to get along.  Pretending otherwise is pointless." 

I agree with this statement fully.  What I care about is keeping each situation in context. 

You also said,
"I don't think there is any need to be sympathetic to those who refuse to follow rules, lol"

Time and time again I witnessed the context and definition of what "breaking rules" was on the VCMB.  It is based on a mentality of conformity, and judgement.  Furthermore, Gosh I don't even know how else to say it;  WingedWolf, that is appalling to me. 

You also said,
"If some individuals treats a person harshly, 3 others step up to their defense." 

My answer:  Who's vote counts at the end of the harsh argument?  And is there or isn't there a dynamic of lots of folks using that harsh argument as a means to "prove themselves" to the overseers of that site? 

Finally, you said: 
"So I don't see why the same behavior that has been around since the 90s should suddenly become the primary issue now."

Wow you know, I never thought of it that way.  It's been going on for years......lets just.....sweep it under the carpet of "Who Cares why the OVC is declining! PARTY!"  My point being, tradition is no excuse. 

Note my signifigant amount of sarcasm if you please. 


To Demzon, I liked this point you made here:
"At the same time the members have less responsibility to think about what they say as it will just be put in a special place and they can cary on with no consequences. This will end up causing more problems, and more work for the admins and moderators in the end."

I loved this point a lot, Demzon.  Well said. 

I think there is a huge point I did not cite, and that is the fact that many of the interactions on the forums are filled with the newer generations of kids that seem to be more dramatic, more lazy, more focused on entitlement, self-absorbed, and are not supported by our advertisments and tv shows in terms of enlightenment and accountability.  Moreover, the government in the current times seemed to be delighted with drowning intelligence in a sea of validation to feed indulgence and personal vices.  I worry about what the next generations will be like when they were raised by movies of hamsters dancing to the Black-Eyed Peas. 

However, there are also many kids and young adults out there that are actually very smart.  They pride themselves on getting their work done, on meeting their responsibilities.  However, they may not come off in a forum post as being the brightest, for the many reasons I have stated. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Sassy on July 19, 2010, 11:46:13 pm
  In all honestly I feel that the true vampire community has expanded beyond the OVC. I have many friends in the OVC, yet when I talk with them about my personal experiences and belief I get 'They don't exist, there is no such thing as a long lived vampire.' So many of us have chosen to go beyond the OVC and commune with the population out there that does not have to listen to judgmental admins, members that are rude to the point of telling a member that they are a poser because they do not believe that they exist. I was gifted with the power to taste vampires. I do know that they exist, and have many friends online and offline that are long lived. I chose as many others to weed through the thousands of boards that give false, judgmental information that they think is correct without even doing research and trying to find the truth. I have been watched for the past year because of this, and honestly it does not bother me, for I taste who it out there. I have been metaphysically attacked on numerous occasions, as well as all of my staff for the same reasons. There are more than just Sangs and psychic vampires out there, and when the OVC opens their eyes to this and starts treating ALL of the community the same then and only then will it start to grow again. We are tired of watching our long lived friends being judged, so we chose to stay with them and give them a place to commune. Twilight and True Blood only makes things harder on them, and I have the most respect for them as well for the things that they have to go through in their long lives.

Sassy


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 20, 2010, 01:25:01 am
SangSavvy - I dont know who you are, but I think Im in love. XDD

Now, in regards to the decline of the online communities as a whole - In VERY large part, the communities have done this to themselves. Many of the points were VERY nicely put by Savvy, but I will summarize - between the sycophantic entities running rampant within damn near every community that has ever popped up, the general aging of the peoples within the community (and with that, taking on adult responsibilities and not having time for the silliness), and to some effect, the general degradation of the image of the vampire publicly, its safe to say that the general interest has gone down in being part of any community.  Im going to delve into these points a bit deeper --


For those that spent time on the communities, the incessant, unceasing drama, politics and general bullsh!t that has gone one since day one drives many away. Indeed, if we could figure out how to power a starship with drama, or with sycophantic egos, we could easily fly to the Andromeda galaxy. in a short span, and ive personally seen this, boards can and have gone from sprawlingly large groups of people discussing vampirism to a small cluster of ego strokers and the few within living off said ego.

Along with that, we as a community have grown. What a real world vamp is has gone from mysterious to generally well known, if divided into two groups, the psis and sangs. Many sites now have at least basic information, and not a lot new - that Ive seen at any rate - has surfaced in the past few years, and lack of new knowledge tends to have people drift away, and not draw newcomers - at least where things that aren't religion are concerned.

Past those two, the vampire as a mythical entity has gone from the mysterious lone being that seemingly could turn into a bat or mist at whim, seducing helpless maidens before vanishing into the night, into a collection of sparkly wussy gaydar jammers - NOT something that is going to draw a lot of curiosity. In some ways, people like me would consider this a mixed blessing - less wannabes, and less people going WTF regarding us.  Further, the public appearances of certain individuals have left many going, what, "I'm like that? Like hells, I want nothing to do with it." 

That last statement, actually, is a very deep one - for every person who doesn't care who knows what they are, I am quite certain there's ten more that  have NO interest in being public. Family, friends, religion (there's that word again), and work/carriers are ALL extremely realistic, valid reasons to keep in the coffin and not want any undue attention.


In the end, I would say that in no small part, the communities, as a whole, did it to themselves, and had this decline coming to them.  But hey  what do i know? Ive just been around a decade with this.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Oculus on July 20, 2010, 02:56:55 am
I used to be a member on vampires.nu; the roleplayers and its members killed interest in the site. I would also say the perpetual "moderating" by members of the forum gave the site a unwelcome atmosphere. You can go to that site and ask something very simple and get several responses from members who "moderate" in hopes of one day getting an actual moderator position. I can recall a certain member who would toss information into certain sections, but did not know anything about it himself. So when other members posted asking where he got his info, the person in question would get confrontational and then start another topic with nearly the same information. The issue was that this person causing problems was a moderator. I highly disagree with whatever reasoning that would allow for someone who is 16 years old to become a moderator, and I think other members did as well. So, a large amount of us left for greener pastures and to share our information and knowledge with people who could use it. I highly respect the administrator of that site, but, things change. Hotel California, (the site's nickname) is no more.

There is no "one" source for vampire information, and I think that is the major problem. This AVA site is one among many and to someone who has not dealt with the occult before, it is not a site that people with visit immediately. I think that accounts for some of the variation among membership numbers.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Darklilone on July 20, 2010, 04:47:11 am
Oculus, how long ago were you on that forum? I just joined recently and have not had a problem since. things seem to have gotten better and leveled out a bit. the "roleplayers" still come along from time to time, but there's information and helpful members that show them reality or show them the way out.
It seems to be run just like any other vampire forum i've been on. They have their set of beliefs, they enforce rules, etc..


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: masticina on July 20, 2010, 08:11:42 am
Mmm so as I pick up [sorry I been more active within my own small circles], there is this group called OVC. That tries to be the "official" online representation for the vampire community. And yet it is filled with non acceptance, powerplay and bad advice. Lovely!

Lets be fair 15 years ago orso the sangies had less support for the idea that there we' re also other "types"  of vampires. By now we also have to deal with otherkin, therians, psychics...etc! I would say a mass awakening is taking place and that if you can't adapt to at least acknowledge such..that you'll die and wither. Every year more and more awaken to their " other"  nature so we better be ready!

So the OVC, I tell you I was associate to the vampire church in the time of decline, as you know now it is mostly an archive. But yes the vampire church was set in it' s ways and as much good as it did.. times changed. The OVC will get to deal with the same.. even one day AVA if it fails to adapt. We are in a time of quickening to say it that way...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Merticus on July 20, 2010, 10:15:04 am
O.V.C. = Online Vampire Community (Not A Group Or Single Entity)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: masticina on July 20, 2010, 10:21:26 am
Ugh sorry in that case sometimes things have double meanings. You know how that goes oh well in that case void my post about it.

So far I see this is a time in what allot is changing that includes the vampire community. We will survive! We just have to adjust!


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 20, 2010, 02:23:40 pm
I think it is fairly important to realizie, that a major portion of the recent surge in OVC activity is due in large to recent media pushes.  We have enjoyed a certain amount of exposure due to these factors.

Twilight is old.  The interest is there but it has moved on a bit, into entertainment and fan base.  It has become too popular and mainstream for a majority of younger folks who are looking for an alternative crowd to belong to.  There are edgier things to do.

And frankly, vampirism is relatively easy to practice on a energy level, and even easier to feed sang in small portions.  The dabblers in vampirism are different than those who choose or must do this for a lifetime.  The dabblers will fade away and move on, which has, in part been happening once the phase has passed.

Finally, couple in the fact there is only so much knowledge in the pool so to speak.  Until we have more actual information, the activity is  going to be a recirculation, which, while usefull and necessary, is going to become stagnant.

There are still documentaries to be made, books to be written as the concept becomes more accepted by the mainstream culture.  I believe that there will be a percentage of those who do indeed continue to post and share, despite the natural ebb and flow of activity. 

And theoretically, say the vampiric  community does go to zero and dies off.  I would suggest that means that those souls who have come here to a non-native state have simply adjusted or certain functions are no longer needed ceasing the energy imbalance.

Vampirsm, after all, is not a identity, it is a trait, a mere aspect to multifaceted beings.



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Thought on July 20, 2010, 05:54:01 pm
Well, I think as a whole anything and everything operates where sometimes its really popular and other times not so much.  A lot of people come to these sorts of sites to learn things.  After they learn what they needed to know, they move on.  The ones that stay the longest have some sort of physical ties to it.  If you're not vested in it, you might be able to get what you need elsewhere.  The online community makes it possible for people to find one another, and sometimes they move on.  Either making their own sites, or just plain meeting up in person.

I think it's just a pendulum swing.  The next generation will seek answers, or another teener bopper movie will come out and people will get curious.

Plus you have to think...how many times can be debate the same topic?  If there's nothing new happening, what do we have to talk about?

I guess if nothing else; if a decline in activity was worrying someone, I would suggest throwing out something new for people to get interested in again.

As Pain said, Twilight is old.  "JS" got old.  The same ole' articles get circulated a million times.  Nothing lost but also not really much gained lately.  We had our moment in the 'sun' so to speak, with some new books and comprehensive studies but now what?  I mean really...now what?  If there's nothing going on in our lives that we need to talk about...what are we doing other than lurking?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 20, 2010, 05:59:54 pm
Whats left?

Get serious.. more studies, experiments, etc.

There are a ton of people who claim heightened abilities after feeding for example.  That should be pretty easy to test and validate, for example.

Do a body chemistry count before and after feeding after a long fasting cycle.

Put your money where you fangs are!


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Thought on July 20, 2010, 06:06:07 pm
Whats left?

Get serious.. more studies, experiments, etc.

There are a ton of people who claim heightened abilities after feeding for example.  That should be pretty easy to test and validate, for example.

Do a body chemistry count before and after feeding after a long fasting cycle.

Put your money where you fangs are!

Oh don't misunderstand, -I- think there's plenty 'left' but we don't have it right now and so you see a decline in posting.  I'm not saying it won't be there, just that it's not there right now for people to...sink their teeth into.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: ariesffa1500 on July 20, 2010, 06:15:04 pm
Participation in the community is like participation everywhere else. We all have our own lives and our participation waxes and wanes just as the moon does. It is a cycle and apparently someone is freaking out because we aren't participating like they think we should be. Once again I repeat, we all have our own lives that in theory do not revolve around the internet. As for anything else that might be on this thread, I wasn't really paying attention.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 20, 2010, 06:55:25 pm
Thanks for the simplicity of that statement Pain; "Vampirsm, after all, is not a identity, it is a trait, a mere aspect to multifaceted beings." Oddly enough this is forgotten at times, and it is a good thing to have a reminder now and again for those that do. Doing a full lab series before and after feeding sounds like it might be a good idea at some point. Personally, I'm not in a position do pay for such right now. Also, I question if there would be much change at all for those that take less than 10cc or psi only. I take 50-80cc myself. That's going on a bit of a tangent, and I might bring that up as a poll here in a second.
I still hold that it is the pretenders and "it's just a game" ones that are getting bored and wandering off; or better yet realizing that a good portion of us are serious and leaving with a better view of just how much they do not know of the world.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 20, 2010, 06:59:00 pm
I think as long as there are people, there will be people awakening.  I think that is important to remember and pay attention to.  Point being, there will always be a need for supportive forums and proper advice needed to be given.  

As far as the fair amount of guidance and information out there, I think its good that its there, however a percentage of newly awakened and post-awakened vampires like to communicate with actual people...not only just articles...

Hence why I think its great that this topic is being addressed...sorry you weren't...paying attention Ariesffa?  


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Sunshine1626 on July 20, 2010, 08:04:46 pm
I still hold that it is the pretenders and "it's just a game" ones that are getting bored and wandering off; or better yet realizing that a good portion of us are serious and leaving with a better view of just how much they do not know of the world.
Although that might be true for some places, some organizations within the vampire community seem to be the exact opposite. In a teen vampire community that I participate in, often people who are being serious are run-off by RPG'ers and such.

I do believe that the current decline is all just cyclic, thought I'm not positive that participation will ever be quite what it was in former years. I say this because many free servers have been closed recently, with Ning closing down free networks and GeoCites being closed last year. Although many of these sites were small, I feel the community attracted people who often felt lost within bigger sites. Myspace and Facebook groups seem to be a good idea to attract those who were interested in the smaller communities, though there is the issue of these showing up on ones' profile (which most don't want their close friends and family knowing that they participate in the vampire community).


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Dantess on July 20, 2010, 11:07:22 pm
For the facebook comunities I believe there is a block buttun so it doesn't go onto your wall, I could be wrong.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: ClayCat on July 21, 2010, 02:58:46 am
I suspect the decline is a fluctuation, as others have said. As for VCMB, regardless of one's opinion of it, it does not appear to be in decline. Some of you say it should be more tolerant, I think it is tolerant enough without overdoing it. The problem with too much tolerance is that the forum then deteriorates into fantasy via acceptance/tolerance of every wild claim regardless of how unlikely it is.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Darklilone on July 21, 2010, 11:25:57 am
*nods*
sorry if this is getting a bit off the main topic..
i've not had much of a problem in the VCMB.. sometimes, as with many forums, i don't present myself clear enough, or there are missunderstandings, but that really doesn't seem to happen often and things are usually handled and cleared up well enough, or just left alone.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: the pink lady on July 21, 2010, 02:13:46 pm
Thanks for the simplicity of that statement Pain; "Vampirsm, after all, is not a identity, it is a trait, a mere aspect to multifaceted beings." Oddly enough this is forgotten at times, and it is a good thing to have a reminder now and again for those that do.

I believe that there are two distinct groups in the OVC, those who identify with the symptoms and conditions of vampirism, and those who believe they are vampires, and these groups are not alike. (Thank Daemonox for the original quote.)

I think the OVC surges and recedes with the media popularity. It's been interesting to watch over the years. Now that technology becomes cheap and ubiquitous, the "endless September" of the vampire community is now upon us. I think that the serious groups are using the Internet to promote local discussion and interaction now.

More later--still at work. :P

EDIT: Fixed the metaphor, lulz.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Adevarat Singe on July 21, 2010, 03:00:34 pm
This is a carry over post from Facebook



I agree with what Matthew and Deb have said. Basically my same thoughts. Plus there has been less chats for people to become involved with. Might be cool to have a chat on Stickam where people can cam up if they want and get to know each other a bit better. mIRC is such an outdated program no one wants to fool with it anymore.
Aside from that I ... See More have seen a lot of egotism within the "elders" of the community (Merticus excluded from statement). They are tired and burnt out according to their own words, but reluctant to "pass the torch" so that others may educate. I think its a power trip for some of them. God forbid one has been active locally in the community for 2 decades. If one hasn't been involved "online" for at least 10 years or runs their own website,or written a book than surely that person cannot be an elder. I see a lot of self important bullshit going on. The so called "elders" cannot even agree with each other on some issues so how can they expect the VC to become coherent


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 21, 2010, 03:31:01 pm
Sunshine does have a good point; and I would like to extend that line of thought a little too. There is, and has been, cases where the fantasy has taken over a place and the reality is what is seen as wrong and thus chased off. I have to wonder is that is not the case in the media as well, and this might be a reason that some might not find any valuable community to help. Good example is the one that was posted earlier of the guy in New Jersey saying he died in 1890-some and that he feeds by pricking his finger with a lancet. We all know he is full of it, and so does the media, but this type of thing is being used to discredit everyone quickly and effectively.

ClayCat; good points, I have to agree that just blindly accepting that if some one says they are something means they are. I can tell anyone that I'm a fish; but it will never prove out. That leads directly in to Pink Lady; that's always been part of the problem from what I have seen. Role players, lifestylers, and fantasy are great, if that's what your looking for, but it should never be confused with reality. That is why I never liked the idea that some places included those others in discussions regarding serious topics as if they had any frame of reference. If someone truly believes that they were killed by a train in the late 1800's that is a mental disorder; plain and simple.

Another bit that no one has said yet, including myself and I blame sleep depravation recently, is that the most likely reason that the charts that Merticus was kind enough to provide show a decline is that there are people leaving because of a combination of all of the above. People don't do things for simple reasons.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: the pink lady on July 21, 2010, 05:21:04 pm
More have seen a lot of egotism within the "elders" of the community (Merticus excluded from statement). They are tired and burnt out according to their own words, but reluctant to "pass the torch" so that others may educate. I think its a power trip for some of them. God forbid one has been active locally in the community for 2 decades. If one hasn't been involved "online" for at least 10 years or runs their own website,or written a book than surely that person cannot be an elder. I see a lot of self important bullshit going on. The so called "elders" cannot even agree with each other on some issues so how can they expect the VC to become coherent

Well, consider it from an "elder" standpoint: You try to run a community, either using your own software, some paid software with varying degrees of control, or freeware with little or no control. You try to protect your community from spam and phishing and boneheads. You're in charge of keeping the peace between the hopelessly naive, the seriously incompetent, and the trolls. While mediating that neverending struggle, you also try to provide a meaningful place for established folks and people interested in participating. And you do all this while focusing on your life and needs.

Personally, I don't see a need in coddling newbies on the Internet, and never have. If someone makes an emo post on the list I moderate, I'll return it in kind or just ignore it. I also run an offline group. If someone young was being emo, I'd reach out, but if they're my age and emo, I'd probably tell them to take a hike. The serious people hold on. The serious people reach.

Wrangling the vampire community is like herding cats. There are so many people in it who balk at conformity and organization anyway.

I think we're also distilling into a purer form, and that's helpful. There are good sources to find information now, and easier ways to locate that information. Plus, the "elders" all belong to the same communities. (I really don't see myself as an "elder", hence the quotes. I can't work in vampirism full-time, like the famous people in the community, and I still discover things about myself and my world every day.

I do agree with Demzon: anyone who says that they've been alive since the 19th century are full of it, plain and simple.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on July 21, 2010, 06:45:10 pm
SangSavvy:
Troll bins and rant areas are there because people want them.  The members of the forum want a place to vent.  This facilitates freedom of speech while still keeping the forum on topic.

Rules:  These are the things that are posted in one place on most forums.  If you read through posts in Announcements titled "Rules", you will find all of the forum's RULES.  These are the only rules that matter, on a good forum.
People may disagree with you, but you will be given a voice if you follow the RULES.  There is no place in the world where you can (or should) be able to state your opinion in a group of people, and expect them to all agree with you.  Some people will disagree.  Some will come across as nice, some as nasty--some have good social skills, and some do not.  Some have trouble expressing themselves online, and others do not.  If you want a group of people who all treat each other kindly, you're looking for a fantasy world.  That exists exactly no where.  Humans don't do that.

It seems to me that you're using the idea of the decline of participation in the OVC as an excuse to sound off about everything you dislike about online communities in general (because none of what you are complaining about is specific to the OVC!)  This serves as a distraction from the actual topic of this thread.
The OVC is not declining because people on some forums are mean to newbies.  If the OVC is truly declining, then there is a NEW reason for it.  Not some old issue.

My first question is, is this, in fact, an OVC problem?
How is online participation in OTHER types of communities?  Is it likewise in decline?  Could this be a generational change in the way people use the internet?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 21, 2010, 11:18:55 pm
SangSavvy:
Troll bins and rant areas are there because people want them.  The members of the forum want a place to vent.  This facilitates freedom of speech while still keeping the forum on topic.

Rules:  These are the things that are posted in one place on most forums.  If you read through posts in Announcements titled "Rules", you will find all of the forum's RULES.  These are the only rules that matter, on a good forum.
People may disagree with you, but you will be given a voice if you follow the RULES.  There is no place in the world where you can (or should) be able to state your opinion in a group of people, and expect them to all agree with you.  Some people will disagree.  Some will come across as nice, some as nasty--some have good social skills, and some do not.  Some have trouble expressing themselves online, and others do not.  If you want a group of people who all treat each other kindly, you're looking for a fantasy world.  That exists exactly no where.  Humans don't do that.

It seems to me that you're using the idea of the decline of participation in the OVC as an excuse to sound off about everything you dislike about online communities in general (because none of what you are complaining about is specific to the OVC!)  This serves as a distraction from the actual topic of this thread.
The OVC is not declining because people on some forums are mean to newbies.  If the OVC is truly declining, then there is a NEW reason for it.  Not some old issue.

My first question is, is this, in fact, an OVC problem?
How is online participation in OTHER types of communities?  Is it likewise in decline?  Could this be a generational change in the way people use the internet?


One persons 'bitching' as it were, is oft another person's spelling out reality for what it is, in my experience. And indeed, it is, I think, at the crux of at least some of the issues of the OVC as a general whole -  that is, people that disagree get silenced, distanced, blackballed, etc.  Been there, done that.  To say that none of it (sangsavvy's comments) is specific to the OVC is, to be frank, a misnomer at best -- a deliberate misdirection at worst.  Fact remains, many a board has been shut down, and many more has had their ranks thinned, because two or more groups of people had a disagreement. Be it personal issues, disagreements in the aspects of vampirism, the whole 'sang vs psi' fiasco, or suggesting questionable to illegal activities, All of these have been issues that have plagued various communities, resulting in many people simply quoting Cartman -- "Screw you guys, Im goin home."


Just because the truth isnt particularly palatable to some members in the communities, does not make it any less true.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: theUVUP on July 21, 2010, 11:54:19 pm
I think it is sad to say the least I can understand why many need to keep undercover to protect there job, family, or well being. But this should not effect there online status; that is what Alias's are for...

I too live in a close minded city BUT can never hide and will never leave the only place I feel I belong...

Father JP Vanir



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Myrbree on July 22, 2010, 02:46:15 am
Sorry been busy dealing with life shit and all. :-\

Ok, I am not sure if its declining per-se. But to be honest it could be any number of things. It could also be that site owners are getting more a hold of what is going on with their forums and websites and all (or not). Some sites have implemented ways to stop the trolls and RPGers from getting into their forum in the first place. Myself included on my site. As in giving the answers they need BEFORE they need to ask somewhere on there site. Unfortunately, this leads to less activity on the forums and whatnot and so thus, less overall activity in the OVC.  

The other problem is BECAUSE of the crazies of the world who use vampirisim as a way to excuse themselves for their miss-actions (and they are not actually vampires) more and more every day and run real vampirism through the mud. (like they always had, but thanks to Twilight and True Blood its worse.)

And finally, we have some site owners in the community with ego's the size of Jupiter and then some. So instead of helping someone they just ban people for no reason just because they are "in the way" OR the owner has such an attitude and unrelated crap on their forums people just get tired and leave.
Not to mention with the economy, some site owners are having issues paying to keep their sites up or trying to keep in the dark about their nature due to where they live and work.

Then again it could be the technology. Forums and e-mail is old school now. Now everyone has to conform to the idiocy of Twitter.  ::)

 
I think it is sad to say the least I can understand why many need to keep undercover to protect there job, family, or well being. But this should not effect there online status; that is what Alias's are for.

That's another problem. Employers ARE looking at aliases now days and somehow finding them. They are getting more into your personal life than ever before. With the internet becoming more complex they somehow can find it now. I just lost a job offer because they SOMEHOW found my nick and matched it with my real name. (I think it might be my Myspace page cause its got my pic and all but not sure. Doesn't have my real name in the account) They did a google search for "Myrbree" my site, this forum, and other OVC forums I am one showed in the results and when I was called in for an interview they told me they could not take me because "You are too involved in what we consider lifestyle choices that are not the norm and therefore not suitable to work here." What business my private life is to them I don't know, but point is its possible the community is going back underground due to this and other things.
Technically its discrimination but we cant say shit right now really about it because (as far as I know) vampirism isn't a class as defined by today discrimination laws. So as a result people who find out about you (public) and you(vampire) are the same person word tends to spread and they don't have the time or intelligence for you to explain the truth. Then they either fire you or deny your employment because they think you are in a cult.

-Myr


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 22, 2010, 03:48:48 am
WingedWolf: 
"Troll bins and rant areas are there because people want them."  -  And that is a sad reality, as well as the fact that it does not make it right.

I think you are missing my point, WingedWolf.  With all due respect, it is not the rules being there that I have an issue with.  It's the fact that the context of the rules are not held in place.  They are in fact, an illusion of moderation, as you must keep the points I am making here in *context*.  That seems to be a concept that is lost on many people - It is imperative for points made to be kept in context, and not used with a single-vision perspective.  Have you really gotten the feeling from reading my posts that I do not like moderation?  It's not the moderation that is my issue.  It is the abuse of the position, the name, and the power. 

My personal opinion is that the "freedom of speech" line tends to be used as a sheld when folks don't like to keep things in context.  That is sort of like a 12-year-old saying "its a free country".  What about being a decent human being?  I'm not saying freedom of speech is a bad thing, I'm saying, keep it in context, keep it in balance.  There is a line between practicing freedom of speech, and taking advantage of it to further ones own merits, irrationale, baised indulgences, and greed.  I am surprised you have not kept in mind the other aspects of my opinions that I stated.  Again, I stated, "I support acceptance of individuality, of human flaws, of change and differences of opinion."  Maybe I'm just not being clear enough? 

I am not asking for perfection, WingedWolf.  I am asking for some sort of balance. 

You also said:
"If you want a group of people who all treat each other kindly, you're looking for a fantasy world.  That exists exactly no where.  Humans don't do that."

I disagree.  All humans are capable of showing presence, compassion, mindfulness, rationale, and concideration.  Of course, there is a pretty big exception when it comes to those that have mental disorders to the degree of rationale becoming gone with the wind. 

You see, I have this radical idea that not only does free will give us the ability to be hateful and justify it by claiming, "Well, everyone else is gonna do it, Oh well," it also gives us the ability to abstain from indulging that mentality, and being a mindful, responsible person.  I have another radical idea that just because someone is being conteptable, hateful, meanspirited, rude, or any other negative reaction you would like to insert here, it does not justify reacting with the same contempt, and expecting productivity.   

Crazy, isnt it?  Not stooping to someone elses hateful, rude level.....  I bet right now you might think that makes me "elitist".  Quite the contrary.  This is not only my way of not allowing someone elses negativity to infect my personal being, but other people I come into contact with, transferring that hate forward unnecessarily.  And after practicing this energetic process more and more, I have not only prevented hours upon days of negativity flowing into my life, I have learned some very positive things from those I have come into contact with.  Not only that, I have actually helped those people in the process from something that originally looked like pain, anger, and frustration, and realized it was really just a cover for that person feeling excessively and undeniably self-loathing and self-hating. 

My point is, we all have a responsibilty for our presence, and I have heard many people use the "Well the world doesnt work that way" response as an excuse.  What about the phrase "Be the change you want to see in the world"?  Sounds cheesy, but that is only because "cheesyness" is a descriptive term people use when they feel vulnerable, and thus weak.  I say we all put our proverbial guns down....slowly....take a step back....and think about what it would be like if we looked at each other as actual human beings, and not nameless, faceless creatures that we may use as an inanimate object to take out our frustrations on.  Like it or not, "society" is not a lamp.  Its not a dishwasher.  Its not a car.  Its people.  That guy you see driving down the road flipping people off going 90 miles an hour in a snow storm, how the hell do you know hes not feeling threatened by *you*?  How do you know if hes not feeling suicidal at that very moment, and doesn't mind if his car crashes into the river?  You don't.  And that's my point.  People tend to forget that just because someone looks and acts crazy doesn't necessarily mean you know why, or wouldn't agree with the reasoning.  Obviously it's still important to practice caution on the road, and keep boundaries, but it is the intention I am talking about.  In regards to a web forum, it is another outlet to demonstrate these positive practices of being careful how we treat one another.  The online world is comprised of real people. 

Now look, I didn't intend to hijack this thread and make it about something other than the speculations on the decline of the OVC.  I intended to show the corrolations of context, and bring up some points that I felt were necessary to keep in mind, from my own personal experience and observations.  Regardless of whether or not there is a decline or an incline, I think at this point I would like to say, if there is an online populace of vampires looking for support, and an online populace of vampires looking to help, then attention should be given to how that help is given.  I tend to be mindful of the domino effect, if you couldn't already tell. 

If you have any more issues with my posts, WingedWolf, please feel free to let me know, and I will gladly respond.  I appreciate your inquiries thus far, as it gives me a chance to explain. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: arcane on July 22, 2010, 05:44:07 am
The Online Energy Communities are also declining.

5 years ago the OEC and OVC communities were thriving on IRC. We had noobs constantly wanting to learn energy and vamp feeding techniques. Now it's maybe 40% of what it was.

This is counter-intuitive. The internet is Expanding, more people are becoming aware of the OEC and OVC, so the influx should increase.

Perhaps with the sheer number of fluff sites (like Twilight) there is too much misinformation out there. And we can't compete with search engines between us and the fluff. Is there a way to determine if this is the case, and if so, how would we fix it?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Hecata on July 22, 2010, 10:18:02 am
I'm 52 and I have been around on the Internet for many many years and have ran across many people that suddenly decided that they wanted to be vampires by claiming they just started to awaken. I'm sorry but you are what you are when you are born and the awakening process starts then,not years from then!
I'm really not familiar with many groups,and some I join I quickly exit due to all the BS, and using letters for groups really throw me off like...VVC...NOLA etc. to me its the same as saying SoS (Church of Satan) OOooey which is another screwed up group but that's another matter.
I don't do the whole Councils or titles such as "Elder" most of that kind of shit is just to seem more important and besides that it gives me a feel of "Hollywood".
When people are asked what a vampire is they give this description of in the beginning when people thought people come back from the dead crap,and that piece of history along with early movies and books is what started the whole type of vampire people believe themselves to be, then it escalated into other books on what a vampire is,then from there you have books on "Vampire Creed" etc. Its all Hollywood hype and to see who can convince others they have all the answers when in reality these people are so far off they make me laugh!

True born do not awaken later in life but are cursed with unwelcome and unknowing information of who they are as they go through a childhood full of paranormal experiences, and the feeling of not belonging. Being what we are isn't an experience that later decides to engulf the mind later in life but comes rushing in on a young innocent child to which the mind is fresh,uncluttered, and free to accept its memories and experiences it will need to adapt to its new era.
Only those who truly know the awakening experience brought on from birth will have(in my opinion),the true right to help others with the same experiences.
I raise an eyebrow to anyone that says they have awaken anytime in their life other than the childhood experiences they should truly of had,for what you are will manifest itself in your most vulnerable and accepting state...birth!
Why do you think children more often times see spirits,or recall a past life more than a grownup can? Because that is the time when their brains are more susceptible and unclogged with doubt,same as a true born,everything happens early and NOT later in life when so many decide that they want be vampires too because they think its glamorous or cool so they try to learn everything they can by reading on the Internet,or asking questions so they too can fit in with others,but problem is...most aren't vampires either,and although we true born often allow those wanna-be's to carry on with their act,we know the truth!
So who needs help with awakening? Unless you were born a vampire and are very young still struggling with what is still happening to you or you had something happen to you early in life you need help with,I really don't see trying to help someone that is past their twenties with awakening,they should already have been awakened. The problems of the awakening go on forever and therefor many may need someone with good knowledge and experience to help them understand them better.
"You are born what you are are and not what you want to be later in life"
Ok...I'm done! Take what you want from this but I know one thing,those who were not born what they are will get really pissed because they so want to believe otherwise! lol

What the community needs is some truth! Stop allowing ourselves to not tell it like it really is. 
Stop allowing ourselves to sympathize with and agree with those we know can not be as we are based on the truth.
Speak up when you run across someone that puts 200 years old etc. on their profile. Its ridiculous! You are the age you are in any lifetime and to not look like a fake one should use their right age in this lifetime. Educate! Educate! Educate!
Stop with the belief of a vampire creature based off hysteria and beliefs of such creature. The creature everyone wants to believe in is the same one based off ignorance of long ago,that writers based their character from and TV has made famous!
We are creatures alright but dressing like,and acting like the "Dracula" character is a mis-conception. Our legacy,our curse is better than that and comparing what we truly are to a writers imagination is pure delusional.
Sure I understand the whole..."Call us vampires" so others can relate because that's the only thing they have to go on,and in a sense the use of the word vampire can be used to describe the fact that the soul requires energy to function because we are voided of such energy. So the word vampire does fit us to that degree,and only that,but the creature that is compared to the belief does not.
So I guess educating people about the true meaning of what we are compared to what people think we are would help the community.
I would rather hear someone say they are a creature of the night,because darkness is where we come from,than hear someone say...they are a vampire,because I don't know if they are a true born using the term to communicate or if they really think they are a vampire of myth and TV.
 That's my say on this!

 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 22, 2010, 11:40:47 am
Thanks for the simplicity of that statement Pain; "Vampirsm, after all, is not a identity, it is a trait, a mere aspect to multifaceted beings." Oddly enough this is forgotten at times, and it is a good thing to have a reminder now and again for those that do.

I believe that there are two distinct groups in the OVC, those who identify with the symptoms and conditions of vampirism, and those who believe they are vampires, and these groups are not alike. (Thank Daemonox for the original quote.)

I think the OVC surges and recedes with the media popularity. It's been interesting to watch over the years. Now that technology becomes cheap and ubiquitous, the "endless September" of the vampire community is now upon us. I think that the serious groups are using the Internet to promote local discussion and interaction now.

More later--still at work. :P

EDIT: Fixed the metaphor, lulz.

While this may be true, one has to question the healthyness of taking on the term 'vampire' as a dominant source of identity.  When you let the identity consume you, I think it becomes very easy to fall into less than desirable modes of thought and behaviour such as delusions, separation from society etc.  Over time, this type of thinking either dwindles away naturally or it  becomes so dominant the person can no longer function socially.  Either way, they often remove themselves from the community.

I think the media surge, has left a lot of fledgling vamps with the thought that they ARE vampire, that they are different and separate.  I think, many of these people have returned to more normal modes of thinking and have left the community in the process.  For many, it was a phase, or a temporary condition.. for others it was legitimate, but they no longer found the identity of vampire to be useful.

To put it bluntly, a surge of popularity and participation generated by trendiness and media, will always result in a near equal reduction following on.  With each of these surges, we may pick up a few gems.  For example, I found the community by picking up a book in Barnes and Noble.. until that point, I knew what I did, but didnt know there was a community.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Mikhiel Karten on July 22, 2010, 12:03:34 pm
I know that I dont respond to every topic. I do read every email that I get from the AVA. I just have alot fo other things things that are going on in My life. I do take VERY SERIOULSLY the state of the Vampire Community at large. I have My esoteric studies that I am doing, also a work assessment that, so that I can get funding through the VA for college. I do try to participate as much as time possible. I know that this wasnt directly solely at Me. But I think that just My example shows what the rest of the community is going through. Also with the economy the way it is, Our focus may be on other things, as food, paying bills, and keeping a roof over Our heads. Thats just My thought, in times like these, curtain things become a priority, and others get moved to secondary. Dark Blessings All. Sincerely Yours, Mikhiel


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Eilis on July 22, 2010, 02:04:34 pm
The cause everyone is overlooking is the Aset Ka.

I've watched them embed themselves on forum and discussion groups every where in the vamp community.  Two good friends I met on ning and another from a local group here won't even speak to me since becoming brainwashed by their teachings.  They've been targeting the fledgling vamps at their initial contact with the vamp community and this has caused the decline.  Instead of newly awakened vamps learning from web sites like sanguinarius or sphynxxcat they are friended on twitter, you tube and facebook by vamps who claim to be Asetianists and direct them to buy the Asetian Bible and join their secret order.

I don't come around forums anymore because I don't know who to trust.  If the vamp community is turning into some kind of religious cult and the supposed elders are doing nothing to stop it then I want no part of this bullshit.  I think their agenda is to choke the life out of the sang and psi vamp community or worse and become the next Temple of the Vampire.  Wake up and look around at what's going on right in front of you!


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: hexmoon3 on July 22, 2010, 02:30:51 pm
Me and allot of my friends have just been busy. We have been dealing with allot of deaths on our side and I personally have been moving and engrossed in school work. Allot of people have gone back to school and find themselves with little time to sleep let along go online and chat. People are probably just busy. As the charts show, participation goes up and down. It is probably based off of people getting busy and then having free time again. Our house has decided to turn inwards and start learning from each other and started classes on energy work within ourselves. Allot of people have decided that they like a more human interactive approach from what I have been hearing. Also, I realized that allot of people are reading the e-mails that are sent, but simply do not reply. It's more like keeping an ear to the ground but holding the tongue to observe others reactions. I myself have been in more of an observant mood than a say all mood. Psychologically speaking, people go through periods of observation and then periods of participation. I think now is just more of an observation time.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on July 22, 2010, 02:58:27 pm
*sighs*

You know, it's the same old things, over and over and over again.  "We should be nicer to the newbies and treat each other better".  "We should keep out the roleplayers more effectively".  "This group and that group were fighting and it caused problems".

I've heard these SAME EXACT STATEMENTS and arguments since the vampire community first started online.  People are capable of being nice and great to each other...sure they are, but they are not all going to do that every time, and there is nothing you can say OR do to change that.  People are who they are, and they do not all value being nice all the time to the same degree that you do.  There is a place in the community for those who are cranky and short-tempered as well.  So this line of reasoning is pointless.

Keeping out roleplayers--agreed, but this creates problems of its own, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, as people argue over the definition of a real vampire.  The post here suggesting this demonstrates an incredible bias toward the idea that vampirism is always inborn, and signs are present in early childhood.  Huge numbers of people disagree with this notion, so any model that seeks to exclude those who say they were turned, developed vampirism later in life, or didn't awaken until at least their teens, is going to fail outright.  It disenfranchises half the community.  Sorry to break it to you, but that half is not comprised of delusional roleplayers.

Humans, vampires included, instinctively form social circles--tribes.  They are tightly bonded and exclusionary.  They will come into conflict with others over clashes in philosophy, theory, personality, whatever.  It's going to happen.  Rather than complain about natural human behavior, why not seek to mitigate it and establish ways to minimize the damage?

Why not work with people AS THEY ARE rather than requiring them to change to fit your ideal?  Because you know...never in history has any system that requires people to change in order to function EVER worked.

It's ludicrous to believe that the OVC is declining because people are behaving the same way they have always behaved.  I don't know if you have been paying attention, but the youth of today are dumber, crueler, and more vicious than ever.  All of this is not the reason they aren't showing up here.

It's true, the influx of new people into the OEC is also less than it once was.  It does not appear to be due to a decrease in interest in those topics.  If people are switching over to new forms and ways of communicating online, the question is...where are they?  What forms are they using, and how can the OVC develop a presence in those communication arenas?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 22, 2010, 06:34:45 pm
The cause everyone is overlooking is the Aset Ka.

I've watched them embed themselves on forum and discussion groups every where in the vamp community.  Two good friends I met on ning and another from a local group here won't even speak to me since becoming brainwashed by their teachings.  They've been targeting the fledgling vamps at their initial contact with the vamp community and this has caused the decline.  Instead of newly awakened vamps learning from web sites like sanguinarius or sphynxxcat they are friended on twitter, you tube and facebook by vamps who claim to be Asetianists and direct them to buy the Asetian Bible and join their secret order.

I don't come around forums anymore because I don't know who to trust.  If the vamp community is turning into some kind of religious cult and the supposed elders are doing nothing to stop it then I want no part of this bullshit.  I think their agenda is to choke the life out of the sang and psi vamp community or worse and become the next Temple of the Vampire.  Wake up and look around at what's going on right in front of you!

I have never heard of this group.  They cant be that influential. 

Ah wait... let me see.

*check website.. very mysterious... very 'you have to be worthy of what we can give you'.  Some interesting concepts espicially on the kin side.  But the site says little to nothing.
*Note the poster who brought it up.. one post.  Interesting mandala signature.
*Check a few other public boards.. TREND:  New poster with one post with interesting mandala signature speaking for (or against) asent ka.

me thinks, we were just reverse pitched a book!


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: giselle on July 22, 2010, 06:37:20 pm
Here is my two cents worth from just a donor's perspective. yes it is combination of all the mention factors : busy lives, personality conflicts; ect. It reminds me of when I get someone new coming into my program. They go ooh man I get to play doctor, be up there under the bright lights, a have nurse to run get me things; ect. I am special because I have a special job. It is not your average everyday job. I have to learn the names of ALL of these instruments? What do you mean I can not go on my break at 12? Can I not just stop retracting this person's insides and go?  Call? Call? is HOW long? I have to work in the middle of the night????

The point I am trying to make is. It is not easy being a scrub nurse or everyone could be one. The shifting and changes in the Community is the process of weeding the real from the fake. Case in point. On another board one said she and her friends left because they where not taken seriously. They are beings that have been around for a long long time and just because they had lived for over 500 years no one took them seriously. She knew what she was talking about because she had tasted vampires. 

Out of 24 students who start out in the program only 13 or so make it. the ones that do are the "real" thing. They did not fold up at the critisium from their peers. They kept at it, took was was useful from different sources and learned what they need to learn to be the best they can be.

So what if there is a decline. Is not going to ever completely dissappear. THE ones left standing are the real deal.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 22, 2010, 08:06:18 pm
Again, SangSavvy nailed the problems straight on - if the OVC as a whole wants to improve, the OVC has to BE the change it wants. In all reality, the OVC as a whole has done precisely the opposite - its behaviors and actions have encouraged, strengthened and added to the drama, politics and BS that goes on.

Hecata - Im not sure where your going with your comment regarding 'knowing from birth vs awakening later' but if Im reading it correctly, you are under the impression that those that awaken, or realize, well after birth/childhood are not 'real'. Not the best argument Ive seen -- Far too often, we grow up in environments where there are NO hints to what makes us different from the rest. Be it religious upbringings, pampered lifestyles, or just plain removed from anything that might drop a hint, some simply do not realise why they are different till later on in life.  Its the same reasoning, I would say, that applies to sexuality and gender identity - Some will know right off the bat, some will come to grips as a teen, some wont realize till far later in life.

(http://x58.xanga.com/1f2f551a56031270065142/t215415457.gif)

(Borrowed/modded without permission, original comic belongs to its owner, named in the comic. :p )


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 22, 2010, 08:43:13 pm
In general, I have found there is reluctance in the greater OVC to really strike out and define a presence.  This comes from internal strife, fear of exposure, and many other factors.  I remember one of the first Twilight events (deamonox put it on here in LA) and the topic of public outreach came out, and I swear partipants dove right for the shadows.  How about sponsoring a blood drive  around Halloween, as a tongue in cheek event?  no interest.

Its a pitty, because this leaves room for others to take up the space and exploit the community for all its worth.

I see a lot of lamenation over the fact there are less newbies around now.  Why is this a problem?  Are egos no longer being served?  No longer is there a flow of young willing nubile flesh to the elders?  (lol)  But seriously, if this is really a issue of concern, what has been changed regarding outreach.  Times change.  If you think forums are going to have the same effectiveness as they used to, you will be wrong.  simple as that.  I find myself in agreement with K-chan (sorry!  old habbits!  :P ) RKCoon in this that you have to modify your approach.  I also think this is a natural lull following a big surge.

Ultimately though, why IS this a concern.  Is it felt the OVC is failng the fledglings?  Frankly, I would supplant that the OVC has not yet created enough internal consistency to really be worrying about its popularity just yet.



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Sanguinarius on July 22, 2010, 08:46:58 pm
...freakin' cooties all over the place... *taps mic*  is this thing on?  Oh, hi....

A couple of things...

Firstly, Demzon wrote, re: troll folders:

"I did want to address the idea of "troll folders" on forums before I end this; they are just an excuse. The admins don't have to really deal with punishment of members that are truly causing problems; as was done here with two individuals not long ago. At the same time the members have less responsibility to think about what they say as it will just be put in a special place and they can cary on with no consequences. This will end up causing more problems, and more work for the admins and moderators in the end; as I said, there are some that enjoy negative attention, and a "troll folder" does just that by putting those that have been nasty enough on display in a special place."

Something I want to absolutely clear up:

I will tell you why *I* created the troll post forum on the VCMB, way back when.  It was to move posts into that had been made by trolls, rather than deleting them, SO THAT ADMINS AND MODERATORS could have a record of the offending posts or threads in the event that such a record was necessary (ie, tracking trolls, building a case against a troublemakers, TOS violations, evidence of stalking or threatening someone, etc.).  The troll forum should be accessible only by board moderators and admins.  It's not a forum to post in (unless a moderator or admin needs to make a comment to other mods or admins).  It's not a forum.  It's an admin tool that lets board officials keeps a record of the offending post without having to keep it present in the forum or thread it was posted to, -- and should not be accessible by the general public OR members of the message board.

-----

To answer the original question:

I do not know why the OVC (online vampire community) seems to be in decline.  I think to some degree, it is cyclic.  To another extent, maybe school's out for the summer and kids don't have the internet access they do during the school year.  A good number of reasons have been listed already and I'm sure to varying extents, many of them are at least a little bit true; combined, it produced a noticable change in participation.

As to why my participation has gone down in recent months (years), is partly due to burnout, partly due to being constantly overwhelmed by -- everything: newbies; email (hours sorting through endless mountain of spam, no time left for real email); things I have to edit and process and get online to keep my site current and fresh; maintaining a semi-accessible presence in my chat room; trying to keep abreast of things that are happening in the community and because of it; hosting chats and meetups (on and offline); and so much more.  And then there's my family. I moved to Arizona to spend more time with my family, while I still could.  And then there's my personal life and pursuits and interests (those take up time I could spend online, but that feeds into burnout...)

I know it's been a long time since I've gotten out an edition of Sanguinarius News, or posted an article a week on my site, or been active in various message forums including the VCMB.  I can't do it all like I used to.  There once was a time where I was pretty much the only person/resource: publishing a monthly newsletter, listing vampire sites, having a serious message board, providing exposure for vampire-related projects or resources, whatever.  I managed to keep it up at a fairly active and steady pace for a good 10 years straight (barring minor things here and there).  My situation is different now.

(And, I'm happy to say, there are others who have gotten involved with community building and providing resources, etc., which has let me be able to "let up" to a good extent, knowing that the OVC won't dissipate into nothing if I don't have an involvement in this or that.  My site is still there, even if I'm not participating as much as I used to, when the community was smaller.  I have helpers so I don't have to manage the behemoth on a daily basis.  I have plans for the future of my site, even if I'm not as much in the forefront as I used to be.)

I think there is a fair amount of turnover in the community.  Vamps, seekers and the curious come, get their answers and move on, get on with their lives.  Some stick around to learn more or help the next line of people coming in; some don't.  Some go away and a few come back from time to time.  Some just turn their attention from online things to developing or participating in the offline community.

Giselle wrote, "So what if there is a decline. Is not going to ever completely dissappear. THE ones left standing are the real deal."  That sums up my belief pretty darned well.

-----

Pink Lady wrote:

"Wrangling the vampire community is like herding cats."

I think this is very true.





Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 22, 2010, 09:13:16 pm
blahblahblah



Or, in shorter terms, Precisely what Sangsavvy pointed out.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Sanguinarius on July 22, 2010, 09:20:00 pm
Hmm, I thought I heard a noise but I guess it was just some wild animal scrounging around outside...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 22, 2010, 10:38:27 pm
Well, I dont think i need to say much more on that topic, not with the faults being demonstrated et al.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Sanguinarius on July 22, 2010, 10:50:29 pm
Something I forgot to add earlier, is there's a certain degree of negativity and just outright negative people who seem to thrive on controversy and negativity running around loose in the community; that tends to drive people off.  So that could account for some of it.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Dantess on July 22, 2010, 11:35:32 pm
Yes, I do think the contriversy has at least a little bit to do with it. We should be coming together, not fighting with eachother.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Sfinelli3 on July 23, 2010, 12:25:14 am
My opinion on this decline is a combination of many of the points made in the initial post.  With all of the Twilight and True Blood fans, our forums and groups are becoming overcrowded with people who dont know the first thing about real Vampirism.  Thus we Vampires, such as myself, float away from the Vampire communities and practice solitarily, meeting only in person with guaranteed Vampires.  Also, the ammount of people here who would go off of topic and things of that nature, really drew me away, we need more stability and control.  We need to be serious, or not post at all.  We do have areas in the forums for off topic discussion.  I have been a member of many forums, have actually run a few myself, and this decline is real, and it is happening rapidly.  If we really want to save the Vampire online community, we need to crack down on who is really serious and/or willing to learn, (what this forum and all forums are basically for) or be kicked out. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 23, 2010, 12:30:17 am
As I was addressed directly on this one; Sanguinarius, I was referring to the ones that are left open. The ones that are put in for the admins to more effectively do their jobs are not the problem. (Oddly enough complaining at me as such and the other passive aggressive statements on this thread make me question if it is hypocrisy or poor humor that "negative people" were mentioned later on.)

Hex: I'm sorry to hear what you reported; my condolences to everyone if a bit late.

Pain: Yes, that Eilis caricature does seem to be pitching the book they mention with reverse psychology. On a more related note; do you think that even if there was a group dedicated to just creating public image that they may become a problem and hinderance to the community anyway? Presuming that they let it get to them. The blood drive during Halloween reminds me of another evert that people wanted to do here in Colorado; it got about as far as pre-planning before people just poofed. The statement of "herding cats" ties directly in. The OVC doesn't do much because the drive is there to start a project, but not cary through, where the actual vampires are concerned; oddly enough the lifestylers seem to have lots of energy to make money with events and such.

There has been quite a bit of mention of home, job, and family here. I'm at a sort of better placement than some in that regard as I work for myself, and then contract stuff that doesn't care as long as the job is done. My mother is about the only family that I worry about finding out, but eve that isn't much of a worry as when she does catch wind that I'm still a part of the community after she thought the drugs "drove the crazy out" I have much more to stand on today because of what little progress there has been; not progress from the OVC, but from the LGBT community, the BDSM community, and others of alternative lives.  From what I see not much has changed in the OVC over time. I went away for a good five years and it's all the same names, places, and arguments. I try to motion that we can make a change, and I get a bunch of 'it's to hard,' and 'I'm obfuscating my real persona with a super secret pseudonym.'
So heres a dose of how to get the community going and make some progress for real.
  • First; anyone with enough free time can track down who any of you are anytime. If they have money they can do it faster; quit worrying about if someone has your name and assume that they already do. You are not that important, none of you, not even me; hell I'm likely less important than most.
  • Second; a vampire ball with real vampires; great idea, now do it. Blood drive on Halloween; great idea, get it set up. Saying things does not get them done, nor does hoping that someone else will; if you want to see it done start off and try to get other involved. Most importantly: carry through.
  • Third; in the US there is a Department of Labor and DoL/Dept. of Employment for individual states. If you feel that an employer over extended it's investigation; ask. Both at the federal and state level there are people who's job it is to make sure that people do not over step their limitations under the law. The system is there for a reason and can help. (that's more to dissuade work related persecution that at times can be seen as religious, but I'm not a lawyer so I can't say that it is because that would be practicing law with out a license and that would be bad.)
  • Fourth, remember what you knew when you first walked in before typing to the new person with lots of dumb questions. That come down to a good life skill though and the base tenant of most religions that I state so succinctly as "don't be an asshole."
  • Fifth, lets get some science involved. I should have put that one first, but it fits better as most of the rest needs some attention more quickly. After getting the pretenders out of the spotlight there is a good chance that there will be doctors that want to examine us; but not in the "let's dissect it" way that I have seem some be down right paranoid of happening. Not mentioning that if it did get that bad and lays regarding medical science did collapse it would be more likely a vivisection. Scientists in the US have standards that they have to follow and going straight to flashy stuff like that is for showing off to the public and nothing more anyway.
So, in the process of writing this I have gotten tired, goofy, and two more people posted. I have a class to teach tomorrow, and that's all I have for now on subjects not dealing with setting stones, good night.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 23, 2010, 12:31:55 am
WingedWolf, you said:
"Why not work with people AS THEY ARE rather than requiring them to change to fit your ideal?  Because you know...never in history has any system that requires people to change in order to function EVER worked."

I don't how how true this statement is, as far as it applying to every and any occurrence in the history of all occurrences regarding a social system dynamic, however, I will elect to understand that no, there is not an apparent or well-known system.  Yet, I feel this is because most systems in history were based off of seeking to change other people via force.  I am describing a situation where inner change of understanding results in a refreshment of outward perspective towards others.  

"Rather than complain about natural human behavior, why not seek to mitigate it and establish ways to minimize the damage?"

I think this was my point, WingedWolf.  I did not complain, I was quite plainly suggesting ways to do just that.  I sort of feel like your avoiding my main points entirely...  

To Paindancer:  The Aset Ka movement might be priding themselves on secrecy.  In point of fact, I have heard of this organization.  They are based on a supposed factual occurrence of vampiric entities in humanoid form in Egyptian Culture.  As far as I have read in the past here on the AVA, that movement was popularly deemed a fraud, as people who bought the book found little to nothing of importance or validity.  As far as the person who brought this up is concerned, I think they had themselves an isolated experience with seeing this happen, and felt it was the overruling hidden factor behind it all.  Indeed, when this sort of incident is all you see, it can not only be nervewracking, but exceedingly frustrating.  

RK: I appreciate you're efforts of support, but I think it's unnecessary to outright slam on Sangi like that... She has indeed done a lot for the community, and she has an impeccable ability to communicate exactly what she intends to say, in a way where the reader can understand her intention near pretty perfectly.  I by no means can come near to the activity and lengthy experience that Sangi has, and cannot support your response to compare the things I stated to her insight here in this thread.  

That aside, I agreed with some of the things you said regarding how thing such as sexual orientation or gender identity are not even outright known to a person from birth, for some it is, for some it isnt.  I think that is a very good point.  

Sangi:  
I understand more now from reading your post about why the troll bin was started.  In my experience on the site, it was used as an attempt to rip folks apart.  They were banned to only see that forum, and only be allowed to post there until they dug themselves out of the hole as it were.  Furthermore, I have felt other occurrences on that forum aside from the trollbin issue as being destructive, for the reasons I have already stated in my prior posts.  


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 23, 2010, 12:53:16 am
Insofar as sangi goes - she and i have a bit of a history, that is true, however, her 'efforts for the community' are overstated - IMHO.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 23, 2010, 01:01:51 am
So.. let me get this straight K-chan (RKcoon), you complain that bickering has torn  the communities apart, and then start bickering with sangi?  Dude, I have cleaned up the damage you caused 'turning' someone, and still was being civil to you.  You don't really have any high ground to start throwing stones at people. Take your drama feeding elsewhere or behave while you are here.

Savvy, yeah, I have heard them mentioned from time to time.  Some interesting parallels with my own mythos, but yeah.. looks like the single post was a lure.

All said and done.. and I am repeating myself at this point...

This is a wane cycle after the glut.  

'Save the vampire community?'  From what Sin?  So the activity dwindles until the next interesting topic comes up?  So Vampirism looses its trendy-ness and those that found a brief social advantage will not have that leverage.  Are these really big things?  The core people will still be there, and those that were transitional will move on.  

I see the topics being discussed, its part of pop culture now, and really, its just not as strange to say your a vamp as it was 5 years ago.  Thats an improvement, right?  I dont think thats going away.

I really think the question still remains to be answered before anything productive can happen moving forward is:

Why is waning activity on the OVC a bad thing?



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Sfinelli3 on July 23, 2010, 01:06:31 am
For us who have been here for a while, maybe its not such a bad thing, we are more than capable of taking care of ourselves, but what about the newcomers?  The ones who really need someone to show them what is going on with them, to teach them what they need to do. OVCs saved me, created me, and still help me, why take that away from others by letting it die?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 23, 2010, 01:14:39 am
For us who have been here for a while, maybe its not such a bad thing, we are more than capable of taking care of ourselves, but what about the newcomers?  The ones who really need someone to show them what is going on with them, to teach them what they need to do. OVCs saved me, created me, and still help me, why take that away from others by letting it die?

Well, to be honest, no one group, or community, or individual should have that much power lest it become a crutch.  No matter what, when one board goes down, another will spring up, and it seems that for a great many, we have a knack for finding what we need.

I came up in a vacuum.  Sure, it was a pleasure to find like minds who understood and echoed what i had come to learn about myself, so its certainly possible.  The communities are nice to have, and I doubt will ever go completely away, but the OVC also has its flaws and imperfections.  Its not god like.  Its a convenient tool, and the world wont end even if every vampire related site shut down at once.

You also need to understand, a LOT of the recent vamps, were just experimenting with vampiric techniques.  Its interesting, and a fun time for exploration, but very few of recent fledglings are really vamps in a perminant and core way.  That dosnt mean support isnt useful, but you might be overstating the need, if that makes sense.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 23, 2010, 01:18:53 am
Okay...I am not sure what all is going on in here. I have only had 3 hours of sleep but from the looks of it...conversations keep going awry and for a lack of better wording due to my lack of sleep, it seems that there is a bit of a pissing contest going on. Behave or I will go on an admin rampage tomorrow after I have had sleep. Stay on topic and take your personal grievances elsewhere.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 23, 2010, 01:25:50 am
Nadia Smash!   ;D


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Merticus on July 23, 2010, 10:00:28 am
Getting us back on track...

Comments To Consider From Facebook:

- I believe it may be declining due to all of the media attention. A real vampire does not want to be linked to Twilight...just saying.

- Ever since Twilight we've declined... But the people we have left are better educated, dedicated and faithful to our lifestyle. So in a way it has improved our Oklahoma Vamps.

- The craze will never die, we just have to be happy with who we are.  In time it will all work out.

- the vc have been going down now but in time that may change and rise again. i also think that some are going undergrund again. i have a small group of friends that talk and theres even other kin in the group

- meh, i haven't bothered with the 'community' much in ages.  I got absolutely sick of the same issues, the same discussions, the same personality conflicts, and having to tell idiot kids over and over that everything they know is wrong. Nothing changes, nobody learns anything, and I cannot stand it. It's like being caught in some damn time loop.

- I don't beleive there is a decline in participation levels, just the transparency. More and more individuals are connecting peer-to-peer on social networking sites than they were on mass communication mediums (elists, message boards, chatrooms). Not to mention, as the net has grown with exponentially more nooks and crannies than there used to be 10 years ago, this dillutes the number of individuals per medium. It used to be that we only had chat rooms. Then came instant messaging. Then came elists. Then came message boards. Now we have social networking. It thus stands to reason that it's not that the population hasn't gotten smaller, the world just got bigger and the tools more diverse, effectively taking us off the grid of present methods of data-mining and analysis.

- While there is the possibility that yes, there is a decline, there is also the point that it is simply becoming more... spread out, I suppose. I believe it's a fifty-fifty chance of the "decline" being either way.

- Because of all of these crap vampire movies I do not participate in online community discussions anymore...

- I know more people were active before companies started to look at email accounts more closely when they hire. I've had friends leave their groups and delete their facebook's and myspace pages just because of it being to open. If social networking sites had a little more of a degree of customizable transparency you wouldn't have to worry with this. Also another force sending people away is pretty much what (above) described in great detail lol

- I haven't been visiting the online sites that I used to because I would hardly ever have any meaningful discussions with real vamps. Mostly, the content seems tailored to the 'basic' vamp ideas/ideals and in order to get any more info one must be a part of so and so's order or house or coven or whatever their fav catchword for a sanctum santorium. On the one hand, I can understand and empathize with (above) and others here who are tired of going through the process of weeding out the truth from the posers but, it also is a collossal b1tch to be treated like one just because one doesn't belong to any particular house, order, ect. Unfortunately Vamps tend to be egotistical...sort of comes with the territory. (actually, it seems to be that way with alot of people these days, not just the preternaturals) It seems sometimes that the only thing I have in common with these 'elders' is that they identify themselves as vampires (or vampyres if you prefer.) Maybe those of us who are upset with the satus quo should just 'take the torch' and quit bitching. Bet that's not gonna happen either though. Because doing the work of an 'elder' is hard, long, and mostly thankless work. I think most 'elders' are fed up with the 'gimmie, gimmie, gimmie' philosophy that inundates the youthful these days. I'm sure some of our elders feel like they're just a juice box that we youngins are trying to suck dry. Maybe that is the case with 90% of us but, for the other 10% of us who really want to learn, this situation really blows! Besides FB and sang.org, I've never talked with any vampire that I would call an 'Elder' and I've been around for over 10 years now. Honestly, I don't know what the solution is to our problem but I know the first step is with our elders and unfortunatly, quite a few of them have chosen to step away instead of stepping up. Which is sad because here we are blunddering around in the darkness and our elders, those who have gone this way before and could help us, are not to be found. PS. If I have hurt any elder feelings in the voicing of my opinion then I must apologize. It is my greatest wish that those who would call themselves my Elders would come out of their coffins and teach us their ways and wisdom.

- You never hurt feelings by being honest and truthful, and your opinion is a valid one, the community as a whole is in a downward spiral. As to the elders part of the job is thankless and we accept that, what doesnt really help is that mostly our views or thoughts are pushed aside, which is ofcourse your right to do so. But as you suggest maybe it is time for the youths to take up where we left off, if we cant change or grow as a community by new ideas and new ways of doing things, we are going to cycle down to nothing. The idea was always that the young would replace the old, new world, new beliefs.

- sad truth. I guess we just keep moving forward but I dont feel so good about the new world and new beliefs


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 23, 2010, 12:08:04 pm
Alrighty, I am back after sleeping off most of the effects of the nighty night pill I must take in order to get a little sleep and some what catching up on sleep.

Paindancer...I do not have full mod status as I had to pass it up due to life circumstances, but I can and do sometimes come in here and make lives miserable if folks begin acting like they are in preschool instead of intelligent adults or if there are folks in here that can be dangerous to new comers or mislead them. I mean..come on now, we are representing our community on a forum that is accessable to everyone with an internet connection. We should keep in mind that petty personal grievances aired in such a manner can turn people looking for help away and makes the community as a whole look bad if just about every subject ends up in a battle between some with personal conflicts. I have a 12 year old and a 16 year old that act better than this.

Merticus, I am able to do some moderating now if you need more help. I am moved in and pretty much settled in. The husband's battle with cancer is over and he has recovered, we have taken care of the loads of medical bills and I am no longer working away from home constantly, we are moved in and though it may ruin some folks picture of what vampires are like...I am running our own farm and have a set routine. Other than occasional fencing projects, assisting Nannies while kidding, having some poultry hatchings and chasing a certain devil horse around the county when he pulls a houdini, I have plenty of time to spare now. Though traveling for gatherings is going to be a lot more rough as I am now a little over 2 hours away from Atlanta. Otherwise I hope to become a little more active in here.

Now for the subject at hand...I feel it is a mixture of what everyone is saying. I am not willing to say it is one thing. We have fluctuations. Lives get in the way such as mine has for me. There are so many sites and forums I think it is pretty spread out as well. I am thinking we may see yet another rise with the newer twilight movie coming out. I think once the fans of movies and books that have come out join and see we do not sparkle in the sunlight, we do not move like we are super human, we are not the undead that have bodies that live on for thousands of years and so on, we become boring. Sorry but, in reality we are different but not in such a spectacular way to keep wanna be's and fans interests. I know that if  someone new comes to me wanting to hear about how I must be 500 years old and can turn someone into a vampire is told that I will get back with them because I have eggs to gather and goats to milk...they are probably not going to stick around. They would rather hear that I personally knew and hung out with Joan of Ark and how I can climb up the side of a building and jump 100 stories down off a building without even a scratch. I see the same thing going on in Native American communities and Wicca communities. Movies and books come out or Pow Wow season starts up and you have masses of people joining lists and groups and such. Once the newness wears off, the truth of it all comes out and real life is boring compared to the fantasy world, lives get in the way, personal problems get in the way and so on...there is a decline. Just my two cents and observations.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: NocturnisOrchid on July 23, 2010, 12:36:19 pm
I was reading the responses here and I too have noticed a decline in the amount of folks in the vampire forums. I know some disagreed with this. But personally, I had taken a bit of break from the OVC myself.I had grown tired of the majority of the responses to the forums being folks who were role playing or so infatuated with Twilight movies, etc, that they had no break from reality and the real vampire world. I was losing patience in trying to help someone only to find out they were just playing.And so if I could not be objective and compassionate, i thought it better to recharge my batteries and take a break. That was my personal reason. Having said that, I am not blaming the decline in participation solely on movies. Perhaps folks are online less, with the economy as it is in most countries perhaps many people are working more.Or perhaps like myself some have moved away for a bit like myself after being disheartened at finding many real vampires online.Or finding a mate that was not a vampire and this may lead some to put the vampire community on the back burner. Raising children, jobs,college, life in general for some is not all vampire related.It seems one hast to work more to buy even the basics, and perhaps being in vampire forums, is a way of cutting back on expensives ie: internet bills. These are just some random ideas, I thought I would just throw them out.
I have really enjoyed this thread and all the thoughts and ideas.
Be safe.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 23, 2010, 04:36:38 pm
Alrighty, I am back after sleeping off most of the effects of the nighty night pill I must take in order to get a little sleep and some what catching up on sleep.

Paindancer...I do not have full mod status as I had to pass it up due to life circumstances, but I can and do sometimes come in here and make lives miserable if folks begin acting like they are in preschool instead of intelligent adults or if there are folks in here that can be dangerous to new comers or mislead them. I mean..come on now, we are representing our community on a forum that is accessable to everyone with an internet connection. We should keep in mind that petty personal grievances aired in such a manner can turn people looking for help away and makes the community as a whole look bad if just about every subject ends up in a battle between some with personal conflicts. I have a 12 year old and a 16 year old that act better than this.

Well you are preaching to the chior in that regard.  There are those of us who do not need to have a mod title, to be aware of the drama feeders and exploiters  you speak of, seeing the same behavior from the same posters across the boards.  The boards here specifically are rarely policed, and as such has generated a form of self policing from established posters.  This is done to keep the boards active and prevent them from being over-run with drama and role-play.  There is a ton of anonymity on the net, and the only way to combat that is to call out bad behavior when it surfaces.

In the posts you mentioned, one poster who has, by his own admission, not the best reputations starts to embark on the same behavior he was criticizing.  If anything, he needs to hold to his own standards and that was fair to call out.  Additionally, he chose to attack the credibility of another poster.  Having personal experience with the effects of his actions, it was also fair to call out.  Certainly, I hope he has grown out of some of his negativity and destructive practices, and am more than happy to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I dont turn a blind eye to history either.

On a board, where there is little administrative oversight, by choice, there will be a need to step up and keep things somewhat orderly.  It is hopeful that the people who do are knowledgeable, fair, and even tempered.  Sure there are going to be those who wish to create drama and literally try to stalk certain posters.  I have had one here in fact.  Barring administrative powers, or involvement, there is little to do but defend one's self.  Fact of the matter, there are some posters who cannot disagree without it becoming very personal and resulting wars ensue.

Yes, boards with lots of drama will drive away participants, but equally so will over administration, as is already known.  If you want a board of fluff and sunshine without conflict, take a note from one of the otherrkin boards which enforce such policies.  If you dont like the self policing models that have grown up in the absence of moderator influence, then the moderators need to decide what the rules are and invest the time to enforce them.   I would suggest, this is necessary, but it needs to be applied constantly and conservatively.  To date, i dont see anyone in AVA willing to commit to the time and responsibility, so I think the reliance of the policing of senior posters is unavoidable.

Coming in, and threatening to wave a big stick around in a situation you haven't been keeping track of, dont know the players, or history could potentially do more harm than good.  On the flip side, a more consistent, subtle moderation of the board behavior would likely benefit the board locally.

That said, and on a slightly different tangent, I see a lot of stress all weighing upon the activity count of the forums.  But, many boards, like here, only really offer the forum.  They can maintain a minimal presence, but are also vulnerable to drama, stagnation, etc.  I post on line frequently, on various boards.  One of which is drama central.. the soapbox forum on model mayhem.  Despite the drama on that particular forum it is vibrant and active.  In part, this is due to their being seperate areas where drama and infighting is more tolerated, but also, the site iteself offers much much more than just a forum.  This may also be a consideration to take into account.  What do many of the boards of the OVC offer?




Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Oblivionburns on July 23, 2010, 05:14:09 pm
As a PV, I don't really want to open up to people who are obsessed with glittery vegan drama queens.  The reasons you stated concerning the Trueblood & Twilight fans are exactly why many people are going back to the close, personal level, in my opinion.  I know what I am, & elitism doesn't come into the picture when we're talking about movie-going tweens.  They're either Awakening, or they're not.  I doubt it'll turn out anything like it does in the movies.  Are we not as wolves, culling the weak & sick from the herds for the betterment of all?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 23, 2010, 06:10:07 pm
I did not do my homework and read most the messages from all three of you. I did not ever ever see that RKcoon even has his own blog where he goes on about how he seems to feed on negativity he produces. I did not see that the three of you seem to be all over the internet. I never saw all the postings that Sangi does on one particular yahoo group bringing news and such to others and that they seem to do a lot of work for the community. I never even guessed that a dominer would reply back to my posting as you did. I know, I know..I failed you all.  /sarcasm  ;)

First off...I do agree with a lot of what you said. Not all, but a lot. I also am not going to get into it all with a "dominate" as I know from far too many personal experiences you only end up with a headache from all the head butting. I will now add to what I was trying to say/hint at...I am not leveling that big ole stick at you or Sangi for the most part. I saw who started it, I saw their introduction and I saw their blog and read most of said blog. Even the parts where they have admitted to cyber stalking certain people just to cause problems. I am not for all out and out censorship and I am not one who really gets into the whole being up everyone's butt constantly for a nice fluffy time and my prior job as a kennel supervisor that I resigned from due to distance versus measly paycheck would show that. Though when one proudly proclaims them self to be a trouble maker and goes so far as to even place on their whole blog how they have joined forums to anger certain people there and basically follow them around the internet doing so, I cannot just sit idly by and say nothing. Kwim?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on July 23, 2010, 06:49:57 pm
Re getting us back on track...Merticus, I don't think any one could have observed it any better. I've shut down my sites for the same reason. Now I have a small corner of a pagan site. Seems when your a outsider. You are accepted,but I agree with with you
Getting us back on track...

Comments To Consider From Facebook:

- I believe it may be declining due to all of the media attention. A real vampire does not want to be linked to Twilight...just saying.

- Ever since Twilight we've declined... But the people we have left are better educated, dedicated and faithful to our lifestyle. So in a way it has improved our Oklahoma Vamps.

- The craze will never die, we just have to be happy with who we are.  In time it will all work out.

- the vc have been going down now but in time that may change and rise again. i also think that some are going undergrund again. i have a small group of friends that talk and theres even other kin in the group

- meh, i haven't bothered with the 'community' much in ages.  I got absolutely sick of the same issues, the same discussions, the same personality conflicts, and having to tell idiot kids over and over that everything they know is wrong. Nothing changes, nobody learns anything, and I cannot stand it. It's like being caught in some damn time loop.

- I don't beleive there is a decline in participation levels, just the transparency. More and more individuals are connecting peer-to-peer on social networking sites than they were on mass communication mediums (elists, message boards, chatrooms). Not to mention, as the net has grown with exponentially more nooks and crannies than there used to be 10 years ago, this dillutes the number of individuals per medium. It used to be that we only had chat rooms. Then came instant messaging. Then came elists. Then came message boards. Now we have social networking. It thus stands to reason that it's not that the population hasn't gotten smaller, the world just got bigger and the tools more diverse, effectively taking us off the grid of present methods of data-mining and analysis.

- While there is the possibility that yes, there is a decline, there is also the point that it is simply becoming more... spread out, I suppose. I believe it's a fifty-fifty chance of the "decline" being either way.

- Because of all of these crap vampire movies I do not participate in online community discussions anymore...

- I know more people were active before companies started to look at email accounts more closely when they hire. I've had friends leave their groups and delete their facebook's and myspace pages just because of it being to open. If social networking sites had a little more of a degree of customizable transparency you wouldn't have to worry with this. Also another force sending people away is pretty much what (above) described in great detail lol

- I haven't been visiting the online sites that I used to because I would hardly ever have any meaningful discussions with real vamps. Mostly, the content seems tailored to the 'basic' vamp ideas/ideals and in order to get any more info one must be a part of so and so's order or house or coven or whatever their fav catchword for a sanctum santorium. On the one hand, I can understand and empathize with (above) and others here who are tired of going through the process of weeding out the truth from the posers but, it also is a collossal b1tch to be treated like one just because one doesn't belong to any particular house, order, ect. Unfortunately Vamps tend to be egotistical...sort of comes with the territory. (actually, it seems to be that way with alot of people these days, not just the preternaturals) It seems sometimes that the only thing I have in common with these 'elders' is that they identify themselves as vampires (or vampyres if you prefer.) Maybe those of us who are upset with the satus quo should just 'take the torch' and quit bitching. Bet that's not gonna happen either though. Because doing the work of an 'elder' is hard, long, and mostly thankless work. I think most 'elders' are fed up with the 'gimmie, gimmie, gimmie' philosophy that inundates the youthful these days. I'm sure some of our elders feel like they're just a juice box that we youngins are trying to suck dry. Maybe that is the case with 90% of us but, for the other 10% of us who really want to learn, this situation really blows! Besides FB and sang.org, I've never talked with any vampire that I would call an 'Elder' and I've been around for over 10 years now. Honestly, I don't know what the solution is to our problem but I know the first step is with our elders and unfortunatly, quite a few of them have chosen to step away instead of stepping up. Which is sad because here we are blunddering around in the darkness and our elders, those who have gone this way before and could help us, are not to be found. PS. If I have hurt any elder feelings in the voicing of my opinion then I must apologize. It is my greatest wish that those who would call themselves my Elders would come out of their coffins and teach us their ways and wisdom.

- You never hurt feelings by being honest and truthful, and your opinion is a valid one, the community as a whole is in a downward spiral. As to the elders part of the job is thankless and we accept that, what doesnt really help is that mostly our views or thoughts are pushed aside, which is ofcourse your right to do so. But as you suggest maybe it is time for the youths to take up where we left off, if we cant change or grow as a community by new ideas and new ways of doing things, we are going to cycle down to nothing. The idea was always that the young would replace the old, new world, new beliefs.

- sad truth. I guess we just keep moving forward but I dont feel so good about the new world and new beliefs


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 23, 2010, 07:07:44 pm
Off topic --  O.o?  PD, I don't know what in the name of Hades your gibbering about. For the record of those that don't know me, I don't turn, I don't believe IN turning, and I only encourage people to find their own path. I may offer my opinion, but that's all it is - an opinion.

Now that that silliness is out of the way, I would say the decline started somewhat before Twilight, though it definitely added to the drop in 'fresh blood' as it were. I would say that the various video episodes that have been aired by A&E and others would likely have gone a fair way to answering a few questions, But I would also lay good money down on the thought of such videos scaring off new people from the communities, again for the same reasons I stated before - There are way too many people out there who value their livelihood, friends, family, and their own privacy to not want any part of being a part of such a clearly dysfunctional collection of people.  Those that DONT care about being 'out and about', on the other hand, tend to live so flamboyantly, so -in the face- of the public that such actions, in turn, serve to feed the desire to BE secret.




Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 23, 2010, 08:17:44 pm
Nadia, I gotcha.  No harm no foul.  I think we are in agreement.  You brought up some very interesting topics, and are a relatively new influence here (not that that means you dont know your stuff).

Off topic --  O.o?  PD, I don't know what in the name of Hades your gibbering about. For the record of those that don't know me, I don't turn, I don't believe IN turning, and I only encourage people to find their own path. I may offer my opinion, but that's all it is - an opinion.
....

Of course you dont.  That would be silly and I am so very prone to jumping to conclusions as is widely known (/sarcasm).  I am pleased your stances have evolved past turning people.  Ill be sure to let the Mrs. know.

But you do have a interesting point.  As vampirism has become more accessible to the mainstream, those who are doing interviews tend to be grossly flamboyant.  This is largely in part due to the media push, who simply find characters like Sharkey or the strung out goth chick who likes to drink blood and never bothers to check on the health of her donor because she has magical protection simply more ratings worthy than well adjusted vamps.

Now here is a interesting one to wrap the noodle around.

What if the vampiric identity is not needed?  Many people gravitate to the term vampire because it is a helpful term, but what if the archtype is simply being outgrown and people are coming to terms with it through other means?




Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 23, 2010, 09:40:44 pm
OK, Im going to have to wander off topic abit, but rest assured, my ultimate point will be very much on target.

PD, now that I am reasonably sure of who you are, let us all analyze what you just accused me of. You accused me of 'turning your now wife' - who, at the time I was speaking with her, lived in the UK, and I in Canada - someone I have never met in real life, but when she came to me on line, she was confused, uncertain of herself, and I merely offered my experience and thoughts in the hopes it might be of some help to her. I'm not sure if this speaks well of me ("I have the POWAHH!!!") or if it speaks particularly poorly of the other part of this conversation. Its definitely not the MOST outlandish thing I have been accused of - but I'm pretty sure it ranks in the top ten.

This, folks, is what I am talking about. Be it self titled elders who cant be bothered with a shred of civility to people they dislike, or people that run around, accusing others of the most outlandish claims in imagination, most people are going to see this, and go right the other way, clicking that little red X in the corner repeatedly until the page is gonezers. These arent the only problems the OVC has - but it definitely ranks up there.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Merticus on July 23, 2010, 11:51:26 pm
There are 27+ Threads (370+ Posts) currently residing in the flagged section (not visible) of this forum along with half a dozen banned users; all since January 2008.  One or more of us are always watching even if we don't reply or frequently intervene as some forums choose to operate.  In fact, I tend to watch and/or read the threads on several dozen groups/forums/sites, etc. throughout the vampire community.  We believe in giving the users of this forum a longer rope and generally leave them to their own posting discretion so as long as it conforms to the forum guidelines and does not involve any form of illegality or personal threats.  We are also more community issues and 18+ oriented than many support forums so a certain measure of discord is inevitable from time to time.  We don't assume for a moment that everyone is willing to agree to disagree or be friends at the end of an argument - too many have spent nearly two decades proving otherwise.

Now back to the topic at hand...

Additional Comments To Consider From Facebook:

- I hear what you are all saying but, I gotta tell you, we don't want to move forward as a people, nay a society without our elders. That's not what I meant when I said the young should step up. What I actually meant was the relationship we build with our elders cannot be one-sided. It doesn't work. As a HP I know what it's like to sift through 100s of fool's gold to find that nugget of electrum (au&ag) that will stick with my coven. I know that those ratios blow but, I still sift in the hopes that others will awaken to their possibilities. I wish that more would come forward now because obviously, we are here and we are getting tired of waiting. Eventually, I suspect we will become elders. I just hope that our society can survive another council. Or maybe we will cease being a society and simply return to the myths of humanity once again. A cougar is only strong if it's heart is beating. The elders or ancients are our heart, it's beat's been a little irregular, all we ask is for what you are willing to teach to us. Two of your rank have already stepped up but, I assure you, our ratios are much higher than this.

- I don't think people really want to be segregated (for lack of a better term), thinking that because they could via society be classified as something known to be so obscure and rather pointed. A pranist (or existential) mindset is one thing, but a vampire/-yre mindset is a whole other planet, especially to the newly awakened. It can be difficult to sort out, and if there is a decline in online community, I would by observation attribute it to this 'society-mindset' ethic- which is in effect turning itself around 180, the OVC now being an authority which alternative minds are perhaps protesting. I want nothing more than good community: for people to come together in a positive and productive fashion. Further, I dutifully salute those who are turning the cogs of the positive community scenes, houses, etc. This is the most exiting thing I can remember experiencing, much like, I muse, many other social movements that have risen and evolved before it. There are several things pranists/vampires have in common, which first brought us all together, but now the question is becoming How can we all push ourselves further still? In way of perspective, in 'contemplating the phenomena' as Buddhists say, in what we can actually do with our talents, and in how we can better connect and commune with our fellow humans? This is indeed already happening to a certain degree, but for such a diverse community to survive as a community, I will objectively emplore us to appreciate a 'secular' (again, for lack of a better term) existence. Like any other sucessful government tactic for peace among its people- not that I'm saying govern others but how we govern our self view with other concepts of being. I know we are doing the best we can, but I want to see what can be done if we push our own boundaries (as it were) as a community.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 24, 2010, 01:05:16 am
Quickly before I go to skimming mode I would like to point out that we have hit the point of repetition incase no one noticed. I'll just stick with what I have said, and who I have agreed with as it is all being said again in new ways at this point. (engage skimming mode...)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 24, 2010, 01:09:27 am
Apologies for adding a bit to the off topic problems. I am just going to add a bit more as a suggestion. There is a history between some on here and it seems to be rearing it's crazy head randomly at first. It continues on in a very interesting manner. I would suggest taking the history/arguments/bickering that have nothing to do with this thread, even veiled to appear to pertain to this thread over to General Discussions. There is even a subject there titled "For those who want to scream" that may work, or even starting your own subject in there. So that this next bit is not a continuing repeat....
Now getting back to the subject at hand

I agree with the first response you posted. Though unfortunately I think those who wrongfully self title themselves and lead people the wrong way or abuse the power has made some leary in two different ways that I can see(I am sitting here letting the fight insomnia pills to take their course so I may miss some things) causing problems. First, it leaves those seeking elders a bit in a muddled mess trying to find a real elder and not some...well..."JS" type. It puts them off a bit and needing knowledge does not always help one to find the real deal. On the flip side, you have real elders who are some what unsure of aligning themselves with the title due to all the fakes out there causing problems under the title elder. Plus the throngs of people that come out of the wood work in a newly released media haze beating down doors. I can only imagine how excruciating it can be to muddle through so many people trying to find the ones who really need help from an elder. Meanwhile at least attempting to be nice to the others who are now role playing and living in some fantasy world. It can't be easy for either side of this. I am not so sure how to get past these problems really. I have seen and met people via email who are in need of our society for many reasons. So allowing it to fade away is the last thing we want. Any ideas on how to get elders to step forward?

The second response posted is extremely interesting. I really cannot add any more than that at this moment.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 24, 2010, 01:30:30 am
Er, just for clarification Nadia, whom are you referring to?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 24, 2010, 03:06:56 am
lol, more drama feeding k-chan?

Dude, you came in here, starting a fight after complaining in several posts about how threads break down into infighting.  Chip was on your shoulder, and sorry, but the victim role isnt going to fly, others including myself were totally civil and welcoming to you, up until you started trying to step up to sangi.  As Nadia pointed out, this is a behavior you proudly claim.  Its ironic you say that a major issue on the boards is the fighting, when you, a self proclaimed negativity feeder go on to pick fights.  Either you havent thought your own logic out, or you are intentionally malicious.

It almost seems you do this on purpose, to validate your own views on how the world is so very negative and unfair to you.  Emotional masochist perhaps?

As far as past actions to the young lady who is now my wife, in part I have to thank you for your actions, as they in part did bring us together.  You and I discussed those actions in depth on other boards which you eventually ran off from.  Yes, distance work is possible, and you are either ignorant, or malicious stating otherwise, but frankly have a hard time considering you to be ignorant.  Its not all powerful feat you did, its simply that a person is vulnerable when they trust and the other takes advantage of that trust.  You decided to 'jump start' someones awakening and in the process you did damage, but nothing that time and care didn't remedy.  Still, not a good practice to keep the community alive.

You have developed a reputation through your own actions over the years.  Nothing more and nothing less.

For someone who seems so  concerned with the topic at hand, you seem very prone to some of the most damaging actions.  I wonder why you would come to this thread and do that honestly.  Are you trying to show your point by example, or somehow think that if you bait people enough you can disrupt another board?  Now you can point your finger at me, and shake your fist all you want, but I have never claimed title such as elder.  I simply observe what is plainly laid before me and speak my mind rationally.  It is curious that you are surprised by that.

Now, outside of giving us stellar examples of behaviors which are indeed detrimental to the OVC, would you like to continue with relevant discussion?

(And while a debate in general or scream might be entertaining, I take the position of 'ignoring a troll is starving a troll'.  The topics I mentioned were relevant to the OP as they were negative behaviors which do effect board population.)

Mert, I am glad to know the mods are operating behind the scenes.  Thank you for correcting me in that.  It is welcome.





Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Myrbree on July 24, 2010, 07:50:31 am
My solution:

Death to the fluff sites!

(Twilight, True Blood, etc)

Oh and now we have "The Gates" to worry about (the vampire characters at least)

The main pile of traffic was newbs and idiots. Not that there are fantasy stuff might be why we are getting less traffic.

Maybe.

-Myr


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 24, 2010, 09:16:46 am
lol.. naaah!

Fluff sites are a factor in mainstream acceptance.  :P  Trust me, I have watched the same thing happen in the BDSM community as it gained mainstream acceptance as well. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 24, 2010, 10:04:23 am
Well that's the second time someone's accused me of feeding off these supposed fights -- now lets see one of you kids back it up.  Past that, I find it interesting who it was that was actually 'preying on the weak', as it were. Further, when it comes to reputation, such is made more by the people that get their short hairs tweaked than by the actual people its about, in my experience.  Finally, I dont run from boards - i get removed from them, as I am the only one in the OVC that'll actually stand my ground. 

Besides which, calling me a 'kchan' or 'troller' is rather ironic, all things considered, dont ya think?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 24, 2010, 10:24:11 am
You really can't be serious asking me whom I am speaking to and in the next post continue on arguing.

Getting back to the subject at hand....

It may be the fluff sites are taking on the fans instead of us. Which I am not sure is a bad thing really. Yeah, they will continue with believing the myths and living in the fantasy world instead of learning the truth, but from my observations we tend to loose those people once the fantasy of it all is removed any way. Then add to the fact when they are here or on other forums like this, people have to weed through a lot of crap before they get to those who are really needing help. So it takes a bit off us as a community in a way. I would really hope those who are really awakening would read the fluff and fansites and realize that it is a bunch of hooey and move on.

You forgot to add Vampire Diaries, Moonlight, and they still have fans and are running shows of Buffy and so on.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 24, 2010, 10:47:01 am
Well that's the second time someone's accused me of feeding off these supposed fights -- now lets see one of you kids back it up.  Past that, I find it interesting who it was that was actually 'preying on the weak', as it were. Further, when it comes to reputation, such is made more by the people that get their short hairs tweaked than by the actual people its about, in my experience.  Finally, I dont run from boards - i get removed from them, as I am the only one in the OVC that'll actually stand my ground. 

Besides which, calling me a 'kchan' or 'troller' is rather ironic, all things considered, dont ya think?

K-chan, you cant go back and rewrite history, no matter how much you want to.  You can redeem yourself, and focus on positive behavior which builds up communities, or negative ones which tear it down.  I can see in your posts here alone, you are capable of both.  Its kind of up to you.  If you really feel I am falsely accusing you, we can take the discussion to PM.

No, I doubt you get banned for holding your ground.  I am a very active and aggressive poster when it comes to debates and I have never been banned anywhere.  Mostly in part to the fact I debate ideas and refrain from making it personal.  Effective debate is good for a community.  Yes, I hold people accountable for their actions and will give extra attention to repeat offenders.  That is different from flaming people and causing drama intentionally (which you claim to do).  There is no noble falling in a noble battle here.. its being removed for being someone who drives people away.

Its simple... stay constructive, and I think you and your posts will be taken seriously.  Start flaming and trolling, and you will get  jumped on for it.. you dont have a clean slate and from my experience, your reputation is well deserved.

I will thank you for contributing to the topic by example.  There is a reason this board has been around as long as it has, in major part due to how it handles disruptive elements.



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Darklilone on July 24, 2010, 10:59:19 am
Comments To Consider From Facebook:
- I don't beleive there is a decline in participation levels, just the transparency. More and more individuals are connecting peer-to-peer on social networking sites than they were on mass communication mediums (elists, message boards, chatrooms). Not to mention, as the net has grown with exponentially more nooks and crannies than there used to be 10 years ago, this dillutes the number of individuals per medium. It used to be that we only had chat rooms. Then came instant messaging. Then came elists. Then came message boards. Now we have social networking. It thus stands to reason that it's not that the population hasn't gotten smaller, the world just got bigger and the tools more diverse, effectively taking us off the grid of present methods of data-mining and analysis.
I think this makes a lot of sense.

I also think, in addition to my previous statement of views, with things such as twilight, true blood, and even Jonathan Sharkey, it might be that more experienced members are loosing interest because they're just tired of dealing with all the petty clutter and BS. As well, any potential new members may not be taking the community as seriously, or maybe too seriously because of these other people and things that bring attention to it. They may be automatically turned off or turned away before they even give it a try. even though the OVC may try to claim no affiliation or support of these characters, connections can still be made by each individual. The fantasy light and drama could be a major turn off to any potentially serious new activity. instead we may be getting some children or crazies, who become turned off when they finally see that they are delusional (or soemthing)...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 24, 2010, 11:11:23 am
This might make some folks pretty mad.  

Personally, I have found myself well and able to enjoy Twilight, Trueblood, Moonlight, (the epic) Buffy, Queen of the Damned, and lots of other vampiric-related things in the media because of one sole assurance I have in myself:  I do not spend time comparing myself to the characters in those things.  Of course it isn't me.  ....And then I move on and enjoy them.  I don't define myself by any book, or any show, or any THING for that matter.  I am me, and a book or movie or shows existence doesn't threaten me or "convert" me if I indulge in it.  I really don't understand that whole side to the argument.  It's sort of like a gay person saying they don't want to be gay anymore because society thinks all lesbians, for example, are like Rosie O'Donnell, or Ellen Degeneres, or "that really butch lesbo" down the street".  Or if a gay man says "I'm not telling people I'm gay anymore because Richard Simmons won't shut his big yapper!! Ohh!!"  ....What sort of sense does that make.  Society eventually learns that people are people first.  Other gay people don't make me act "their kind of gay", and Twilight doesn't cause my vampiric nature to change just because of its existence.  I am confident in this, and therefore, I separate the definitions, and enjoy the movies/books.  Course, I might like Twilight because I'm well...sort of emotastic.  :-p  I enjoy things like the band Death Cab For Cutie, in addition to my love for things like Rocky Horror and such.  One of the things that has been a blessing as well as a curse is that people tend to enjoy judging another person based on their likes and dislikes.  This happens a lot in the "get to know you" stages of interaction.  It's always been a helpful tool for me when I meet others that claim something about *ME* is bad, because of something I happen to like or not like, in relation to what they think is worthy of time and attention.  If someone is going to hate on me, or discount me, because of my love for Twilight, for example, they are typically people that aren't worth an ounce of my attention.  I do not follow hater trends, and I do not drink hateraide.  Thats the end of it.  

As far as the effects of Twilight and similar on the vampire community is concerned, I think what many are angry about is what similarly happened when the GLBTQ communities became more confident and began having more parades; Many people thought that the most flamboyant, outlandish, feathery headdressed people on the front lines that ended up making the news on TV was the example of what every gay person was like.  And a lot of gay people said "Uh-uh girlfriend".  At least...they said no in the shadows, and went back to working their construction jobs, or working on their interior design classes in quiet.  

Keeping vampiric lifestyle in context compared to the gay communities, it's quite a bit different when we might be eventually asking society to understand and accept that we are harmless compared to the hollywood versions (lame and violent), and even more, be willing to donate blood.  Right now we are in a whirlwind.  We are having trouble stabilizing within our own community, and at the same time, dealing with an onslaught(er) of media attention asking all sorts of questions and formulating their own opinions rapidly.  I think now more than ever this is why we need to put aside the damn fighting, and make some head-way on being grown-up enough to stop the ego-tripping and over-usage of trendy blanket statements, and try to come together, even if we -gasp- aren't to keen on it because then our vampy ego trips don't get fed as much.... -pouty face-  

But seriously, the newly awakened are left waiting for help...Can I say it any more?  I feel like I'm screaming from the rooftops.  I'm ready to see the "Truce and Treaties of 2010" Thread now......Which probably won't happen for a long time.  



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 24, 2010, 11:28:56 am
Pop culture effects are going to always be a bit of a double edged sword.

Ok, a few years ago, if you stated you were a vampire,  you were labled as a freak or ill.

Now, you are labled as a fan-boy.

Its going to open up acceptance, and dilute and pollute at the same time.

People will have to dig deeper, but they will fine less resistant to doing so now.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: NyteMuse on July 24, 2010, 01:55:29 pm
Just to get Merticus off my back...

- I haven't been visiting the online sites that I used to because I would hardly ever have any meaningful discussions with real vamps. Mostly, the content seems tailored to the 'basic' vamp ideas/ideals and in order to get any more info one must be a part of so and so's order or house or coven or whatever their fav catchword for a sanctum santorium.

This, mostly. I agree with some of the points RK and SangSavvy made, but my interest dropped off when I realized I checked a dozen forums daily and saw the same 5 topics being discussed. I'm not blaming any of the forum owners, as I struggle at times to come up with the next level of discussion on my own forums. But it does seem to be true that after the basics, one can't bring up anything new without meeting worlds of opposition or insane flufftwittery (when topics range to intermediate-to-advanced energy work and people come on claiming ricockulous feats without citing backup). And I can understand the aversion forum owners might have to be posting more advanced, possibly more dangerous things in the open where total neophytes could see and possibly have problems (after all, one doesn't find techniques for conducting spirit possession after a random Google search, at least none that work), but even in some of the special locked subforums the topics stay basic. It's a hard line between going into advanced energy work and flufftwittery.

To some degree I also got annoyed with the emo "Oh, poor me, my life sucks" bemoaning that went on nearly everywhere, especially from the PVs. LadyCG put it best (I'm sure someone else said it, I just heard it from her first): we don't sympathize and say "Oh, poor you" when someone forgets or refuses to eat solid food, so why do it because someone doesn't maintain their energetic diet.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 24, 2010, 08:41:26 pm
Quote
(I missed this when i replied the last two times. hence the pm.)  Considering I dont particularly believe in psicrap (as in i think 90% of it is the purest of  BS) , and my rantings on my xanga are for my own personal pleasure as well as having at least ONE place where what i say aint censored by whiny bitches that cant take a dose of their own crap for all to see, if you wanna call it feeding, I suppose tis your call.  As the saying goes, dont take my word for it, think for yourself. But, for the record, i dont 'produce' it - I stand up when other people try to shove it at me or others. Im not like many of the pussies around the interwebs thatll take shit lying down.

RKcoon, I do not accept PM's like this what so ever. Any further PM's from you will end up here as well as in general discussion as this one has. I will not have private conversations with you, especially after seeing how you have since posted other posts in other discussions attempting to egg things on. There is a difference between not taking things laying down, shoving back and stirring the pot. You have done nothing but stir the pot and PMing this to me is yet another example of attempting to do such. As far as the feeding off the negative energy, I was NOT talking about PSI feeding...which you should have ASKED instead of trying to start some sort of argument in PMs. There are people with psychological problems who are so starved or need attention so bad, they will even go so far as to create problems where ever they go in order to get attention. Even if it is the bad kind of attention. Your rantings on your Xanga are public..enjoy all you want. I mean it is yours, but it is also very available to the public. If you wanted it to be private you should have written it down in a journal.  That way every thing you wanted to say including your AVA bashing rant on the Xanga page of yours would not be viewable by the public. BTW...if you despise the AVA, PSI vamps, and Michelle Bellinger so badly, why are you even here? The only other hints I have are your rants about being thrown off other forums where you hunted down and started fights with Sangi and their friends on other forums they belong to.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 24, 2010, 09:23:57 pm
I thought about posting it publicly, but I didn't want to "derail the topic" any more than it already has, out of the respect that I actually hold for Mert. Yes, I DO in fact respect him, though I strongly disagree with him - I respect him as he has the decency and good will to actually ask and LISTEN to my opinion, and I his as well.   But then its nice to see there's more than a couple people around here on a high horse. Further, it was you (and PD) that made the statement of feeding off negativity, Not I, and I was attempting to clarify it for you - but i see that, much like PD, you are borrowing a page from FOX news and distorting the truth and repeating that distortion in the hopes people buy it.

Now, that said, I hold no ill will to AVA, and while I cant say the same about belanger (does she belong to AVA? Hells if I know), I was interested in being part of the topic that Mert started - namely, the Decline of this community as a whole. I dont mean AVA, I mean the OVC. So, I stated, clearly and concisely I believe, what I perceive at least some of the faults to be within the OVC as a whole.


And what do I get?

You, PD, and Sangi demonstrating (before a live studio audience, as they used to say), EXACTLY what I was stated in my first post here. Over-reactive, hypersensitive, grudge-bearing persons, so insecure within themselves that they attack anyone that dares offer a differing view.   And guess what? That's exactly what all three of you did. I didn't get any questions, I didn't get asked why I believe what i do, I got directly attacked and lied about, as par for the OVC I am disappointed to admit, particularly since I was expecting better, not from PD or Sangi (they've long since proven themselves in such matters) but from the staff of AVA; at least from what I have observed in many long discussions with Mert.

Pity, though I do find it amusing that my presence and my first post was so inflammatory that it warranted such childishness.


But hey, I am willing to forgive and play nice. How bout you kids?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 24, 2010, 10:14:11 pm
....

I give you points for effort, but sorry dude, you started ripping on people first.  Others just responded in defense of your target.

For someone who has such disdain for 'pussies who lie down and take it', why are you so butthurt when people stand up to you for attempting to be a bully?  You came in here with a chip on your shoulder looking for a fight, and now you complain because you found one?

Drama drama drama!

As I stated before.. if you want to behave, you and your posts will be taken seriously.  If you want to lie, cause drama, and attack others foolishly, you will be resisted.  *chuckle* and sorry k-chan, if you think you are coming out on top of these exchanges, or building any points with anyone... well thats just kinda sad there.



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: AVA Staff on July 24, 2010, 11:30:38 pm
No more personal attacks, veiled innuendos, or discussion not directly germane to this topic will be tolerated.  Anyone who has a personal issue with another individual take it elsewhere and stop feeding into the perpetual cycle.  This is the only warning that will be given.

Back to the topic...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on July 25, 2010, 02:31:15 am
It's ironic that people still want to blame the vampire fiction craze for sending hordes of ignorant teens into our midst.

It may have escaped your notice, but the entire point of all this is that the expected hordes failed to appear.  Apparently participation is down--not up, as one would expect if tons of people were coming in to ask questions.

I love True Blood.  Seriously.  I read all the books before they turned them into a tv show, and they're doing a phenomenal job with it.  Don't knock the fiction.  It's fun.  We love it.  (You know you do).  Don't take yourself so seriously, it's just a fun story. 
The stories make people think vampires are mysterious, sexy, intelligent, and edgy.  Boo hoo?

So again...does anyone have any idea of where everyone has gone?  If they've gone elsewhere but are still communicating, perhaps we should be going there too.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Sunshine1626 on July 25, 2010, 07:34:39 am
Though I could be wrong in saying so (the graphs were a bit hard to understand), it seems that most sites had a brief period of heightened popularity shortly after their creations. Perhaps this is simply normal for most organizations? An organization is created with little popularity... Advertising and word-of-mouth draw in lots of people... The organization's membership settles down when those who have joined either visit when they are requested to do so or if something withing the organization piques their interest, and word-of-mouth has generally died off.
Also, although participation in one particular group/organization has declined, other places retain their participation or even experience growth. As we have seen in this thread (and many others) people within the vampire community often belong to more than one organization at the same time. Maybe their attention is simply elsewhere?
Perhaps it's not actually an issue at all?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 25, 2010, 10:06:29 am
Yep.

Keep in mind, a lot of folks have just been attracted to the vampire archtype.  For a while, vampire communites served that need, but many of those involved faded out or walked away.  They probably were interested, but not vampiric in nature.  Media has now served that need better, more boards, fan and otherwise have sprung up.

But again, the big question is... why is this a issue.  The current state of community support is double edged at best, as there is no definitive line that any take, and there is no science to back it up anyway.

The precene of the OVC is a nice to have, but it is unnecissary, in the greater scheme.  Focus on being a quality site, offering more than just a forum, etc, and dont worry about the numbers.  Otherwise.. its just a popularity game.

Quality over quantity.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Darklilone on July 25, 2010, 10:10:26 am
Quality over quantity.

sounds good to me :D


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Taris on July 25, 2010, 02:51:46 pm

I think the OVC surges and recedes with the media popularity. It's been interesting to watch over the years. Now that technology becomes cheap and ubiquitous, the "endless September" of the vampire community is now upon us. I think that the serious groups are using the Internet to promote local discussion and interaction now.


Honestly, the groups out there that "participate" by going to club and parties.... were they the more serious at one point? I was a part of the "scene" as it was to be called for several years between several "families" and I found that many of those who attended said parties went not to be amongst those of their own "kin" but to party, drink, and cause drama. I do not claim Vampyre nor will I ever. I would be one those out there would call "other-kin" while others would call poser. The online groups and discussion boards are helpful much more than the families and groups I have been a part of have been when it comes to the energy aspect of vampyrism but those I had associated with in the physical seemed only interested in the nightlife of the scene. Hell, Even the courts of the city have turned to allowing those who run the clubs seat as part of it before those who spend their time teaching and helping those who seek. They give their eldership to those who would use the scene as a means for profit before those who would use it as a means to seek knowledge.

 As for the "Inner Teachings" I have spent 5 years studying and practicing on my own. Seeking the knowledge on the subject through metaphysical means and through what books were available by our "Father" Sebastian. Nothing have I seen in the books on Inner Teachings nor heard from the elders of and it makes me to wonder sometimes on the state of the physical community in the spiritual and metaphysical. I am sure there are those out there who seek only to learn of the feeding and "glamour". Mind you yes I use feed instead of communion i am sure there are those would complain *shrugs*. The state of the scene at least in NY is this, everyone for their own gain and their own wants and needs before others. Everyone seemingly for the physical and not the meta nor the spiritual. Teachings and learnings have declined to the point where you as a newly awoken is not even given to discussion on feeding be it energy or sang. The community has devolved in NY and I am wondering if the community has in other areas. This could be one of the reasons for the decline in the physical Vampyr as I know I have gone from these "communities" a few years ago.

Just adding my outlook on the physical community decline of one of the areas. I have heard in Florida that there are those who would use the clubs as a place to meet  and discuss issues and teaching. So I am sure there are those out there who know of areas that give you that sated feel when it comes to spiritual and metaphysical as wel as physical but I know not and for the years to come probably will not.  The decline online can be attributed to what many have already said, elitism. There are many would voice their opinion on the community, the spiritual, the metaphysical, and their own "kin" and beliefs. These people are normally those new to the "condition" if you want to call it that and many of those newer to it are newer to the communities and thus put down or out in some of the boards and groups. Their opinions or thoughts or beliefs tossed to the side and TOLD what is what when as with people I am sure there are differences in the Vampyr, wolves, fae, daimon, dragon, and whatever various otherkin there may be.


Well just some thoughts. Not intended to flame or bash just wishing to point out what I have noticed over the years.

Taris

Edit: Noticed I had alot of extra space at the end due to the scroll bar not wanting to function properly and show me what I was typing.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 25, 2010, 11:57:51 pm
I just got off Facebook a bit ago and the thought struck me. Any chance we may have participants stuck overseas at the moment? I know many of my friends who are police officers, firemen, EMT's, and even my dog show friends are over there. I see them periodically on Facebook, but they are busy catching up with family and close friends they are not going to forums they normally would if they were at home. Which of course would fall into life getting into the way. Still, is this something else we should take into consideration?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 26, 2010, 12:33:44 am
Ok... mass response...

Myrbree: It's not the "fluff" sites that are the problem that I can see. As stated time and again fantasy can be a good thing. Also, most of them don't seem to be doing much that is of import to or about us. I could be wrong as I'm not on much; but they just seem to say "it's just fiction" and move on. If that is enough to dissuade a person from searching than they are not all that serious about finding the answer they are looking for anyway.

SangSavvy: Another good observation, that has been made before, but stated much better this time; fiction is a good thing for escape from the day to day, and has nothing to do with people not being on forums. I'm liking the Parasol Protectorate series, that is coming out fairly well myself; Gail Carriger, Soulless and Changeless so far. Also, on a side note; if you say something that you see to be true and is not a direct insult to someone for the sake of itself and they get pissed, oh well; perhaps it is something that they just didn't want to hear. I do that quite a bit; it's a definite judgement call.

That's about all I saw this time to catch my eye that was not repeats of the same or personal fights; back to the jewelers bench then.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on July 26, 2010, 12:48:38 am
Now, I HAVE seen the OVC become less tolerant over the years, in a minor way.

Many sentences now begin with 'real vampires don't...'
Of course, with the exception of the utterly ridiculous (such as 'live for 1000 years' or 'sparkle in sunlight'), those sentences are untrue for some.  Those individuals will then be made to feel like their experiences aren't valid, or that they simply won't be believed or accepted by the community that offers the only sanctuary they can turn to, to find others like them.
I do think this is a trend that should be reversed, if possible.

Essentially this:  Folks, stop pretending you know what real vampirism is, what causes it, and what traits all real vampires have.  Vampirism is not all one thing.  What may be true for you will not be true for all vampires.  You can explore and quantify and find out as much as you like about a TYPE of vampirism, but you do not have that information about all types, and if you pretend that you do, you are absolutely wrong.
If someone says that sunlight hurts, don't tell them that's not a vampiric trait.  If they claim they were turned, maybe they were.  If they claim they need a pint of blood a week, maybe they do.  Your experiences may be entirely different from theirs...the experiences of other vampires you have met may be entirely different from theirs--and they may still be entirely honest, and entirely correct about their state of vampirism.  They may simply be DIFFERENT from you.

There is far too much out there that we have yet to learn, and the OVC is better off being a place where people can speak about these things freely without having duct tape stuck over their mouth (metaphorically).  You don't learn anything by shouting other people down and telling them that what they say to you about themselves is unacceptable.

This may have nothing to do with a decline in participation, but it most certainly is going to have a negative effect on progress. :P


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 26, 2010, 01:18:25 am
At what point does acceptance border on the realm of escapism, Psion?

Why is your line of doubting that the claims of a 1000 year old vampire any different than speculating that sunlight sensitivity may be in large part due to choices made by the individual to stay out of the sunlight, generating increaced response.

My wife is a sang.  She is light sensitive.  But it dosnt cripple her.  If she avoided going out at all during the day, her photo reaction would be much worse.  She manages, she uses sun screen a parasol and sunglasses.  She goes out and is just fine.

Part of being able to function in the world, is to be able to pass our own reactions under a lens of reasonable and logical scrutiny.  Otherwise, we can just delve off into a realm of fantasy without bounds, which would essentially make us  a role play site.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 26, 2010, 02:18:19 am
Now, I HAVE seen the OVC become less tolerant over the years, in a minor way.

Many sentences now begin with 'real vampires don't...'
Of course, with the exception of the utterly ridiculous (such as 'live for 1000 years' or 'sparkle in sunlight'), those sentences are untrue for some.  Those individuals will then be made to feel like their experiences aren't valid, or that they simply won't be believed or accepted by the community that offers the only sanctuary they can turn to, to find others like them.
I do think this is a trend that should be reversed, if possible.

Essentially this:  Folks, stop pretending you know what real vampirism is, what causes it, and what traits all real vampires have.  Vampirism is not all one thing.  What may be true for you will not be true for all vampires.  You can explore and quantify and find out as much as you like about a TYPE of vampirism, but you do not have that information about all types, and if you pretend that you do, you are absolutely wrong.

If someone says that sunlight hurts, don't tell them that's not a vampiric trait.  If they claim they were turned, maybe they were.  If they claim they need a pint of blood a week, maybe they do.  Your experiences may be entirely different from theirs...the experiences of other vampires you have met may be entirely different from theirs--and they may still be entirely honest, and entirely correct about their state of vampirism.  They may simply be DIFFERENT from you.

There is far too much out there that we have yet to learn, and the OVC is better off being a place where people can speak about these things freely without having duct tape stuck over their mouth (metaphorically).  You don't learn anything by shouting other people down and telling them that what they say to you about themselves is unacceptable.

This may have nothing to do with a decline in participation, but it most certainly is going to have a negative effect on progress. :P

Are we going to say, then, that 'turning' is possible? Thatll draw back the crowds. Are we going to say, then, that one can cause physical harm to another over the internet? The specialty of some, I hear, though I cant speak to it personally (Id certainly have less hassles if I COULD...). Are we going to say, then, that turning into mist or a bat or living a thousand years is possible? Bring on the Alucard wannabes.

There's a lot we can legitimately say - even with the nebulous and questionable topic that vampirism itself is - that is pure BS, through and through. It may pop some bubbles and crush some overinflated egos, but its still merely pointing out the truth - a cold shower of reality and what not.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 26, 2010, 07:47:45 am
I am thinking they are saying that some claims should be considered or not attacked/down played. Other claims are just crazy. I really do not think they were saying we should take turning into mists and bats seriously. As far as the internet thing, I have heard of long distance healing, feeding and so on...thought it had nothing to do with the internet. I really do not think the internet itself is a medium for that. Though it would give new meaning to uploading and downloading..... 8)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 26, 2010, 10:11:37 am
Now, I HAVE seen the OVC become less tolerant over the years, in a minor way.

Many sentences now begin with 'real vampires don't...'
Of course, with the exception of the utterly ridiculous (such as 'live for 1000 years' or 'sparkle in sunlight'), those sentences are untrue for some.  Those individuals will then be made to feel like their experiences aren't valid, or that they simply won't be believed or accepted by the community that offers the only sanctuary they can turn to, to find others like them.
I do think this is a trend that should be reversed, if possible.

Interesting, we were both a part of many of the same groups during the same time and yet we had differing experiences. Way back I remember seeing the 'your not real because (insert statement with no possible backing)' statements about once every few minutes; it was even worse when the psi vamps started showing up. I may have to go with Penn and Teller on this one; "the "good ol' days" are bullshit." We always remember the past more fondly and idealized than is deserved.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 26, 2010, 10:21:47 am
And on the flip side, the boards can also be used to widely agree on what IS possible as well.

Yes, I believe distance healing and feeding is possible, as is most spell work.  Using the internet could be no different than using a bit of hair or blood or sigil to form a connection after all.  Is it needed?  No.  Can a theory be proposed that makes sense, drawing from the precident of what is widely accepted modes of magikal practice?  I think so.

If someone comes up to me, and says they are a shape changing vampire who can destroy my soul by looking at me cross-eyed, my filters would say they are full of it.  If they say that vampirism is caused by a semi-symbiotic entity.. I would be skeptical, but willing to consider the theory.  I think the boards can be used the same way.

To use the previous analogy, someone stating that they dont feel they could be hurting people in their actions because they dont feel it is possible, could very well be a learning opportunity.   There are places in the  world where they feel they can cure themselves of HIV by raping a virgin.  Despite their beliefs, they are incorrect.  

So, if we find ourselves at odds with a great number of the community, do we assume we are correct and the world is wrong, or do we open up the potential for adjusting our views?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on July 26, 2010, 01:46:28 pm
On the sun sensitivity issue alone--telling folks that they're sensitive to sunlight because they avoid it is TELLING.  It's not asking.  Ask them which came first--the sensitivity, or the avoidance?  Ask if they've done anything to try to lessen their sensitivity.
You may be surprised to find that many of them were smart enough to think of that, and they did try it, and it didn't work for them.  You have to be open to listening to what people have to say, not theorizing without bothering to see whether your theory has any basis in validity for that person.  It's easy enough to make that mistake, and I've surely made it myself a number of times over the years.  I learned to stop.

A theory that makes sense, and fits situations you have seen, doesn't apply to everyone, even if it was valid for what you've seen.  That's my point.  People are desperately trying to oversimplify something that is extremely complex.

"My eyes hurt a lot when I go outside during the day" is not in the same category as "I'm 1000 years old", and you shouldn't pretend that it is.  You know better, and so does everyone else.  As for turning, the community decided to denounce it to keep away the kiddies.  They didn't decide it was invalid, they decided to lie about it, whether it was or not.  The younger folks were never let in on the whole thing, and thus you have the whole community saying it today, even the ones who believe differently.  There are still people who will tell you that it's worth it to lie just to keep away the 'vampabees'.
Sorry if you weren't let in on the ruse either.

Rather than adjusting your views to match those of the majority of the community, has it occurred to you that both can be correct?  That is sort of my point, after all.  VAMPIRISM IS NOT ALL ONE THING.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RavenHarte on July 26, 2010, 06:51:27 pm
I think that participation in ANY social outlet is cyclical, and participation in online vs live - meetup vs workshop vs gathering blah blah ebbs and flows as the communities involved need them to be. The OVC is no different than any of the other alt communities in that respect.

Right now there are a TON of different online social outlets people are exploring, trying to figure out if they like or not, if they work or not, etc and really who has bloody time to keep up with all of them??? I had to set myself a schedule to devote an hour to this one this day, then that one that day, etc just to READ whats there, let alone post. And so many of the groups end up with the same posts ,that you just arent going to send your reply to EVERY group your on, which means some groups get more traffic than others.

And seriously, although I came to this community online, and I have loved learning about the various different ideas because of the vast online presence, I FAR preferred going to the live events in Savannah & Atlanta & later Ohio, and I miss those. Lots of people miss them. Not that the current economy is helping there, but I do think that the overwhelming online presence has stomped all over the value of the inperson gatherings. However this is where the infighting, elitism, and bullsh*t that goes on in the OVC screws everything up. This house doesnt like that house, this vamp doesnt like that vamp, its beyond ridiculous and that kind of high school crap going on at events, or on boards whose people sponsor events leaves a serious sour taste in ones mouth.

Is this something that has to be "fixed"? Well the bs ending would be great but whats the chance of that when it hasnt in 15yrs? So my thought is dont fight the need for the cycle to just turn again at some point to whatever new incarnation of social connection is needed. I offer that those of us who crave a certain kind of connection should just focus on getting that, and STOP wasting energy and effort in areas that dont serve us, or the community. Its what many of the "elders" in the Pagan communities I belong to have started doing and by that the groups who are actually serving the community effectively flourish, whilst the ones that need to die, DIE. There must always be fallowtide before new growth.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 26, 2010, 08:03:50 pm
On the sun sensitivity issue alone--telling folks that they're sensitive to sunlight because they avoid it is TELLING.  It's not asking.  Ask them which came first--the sensitivity, or the avoidance?  Ask if they've done anything to try to lessen their sensitivity.
You may be surprised to find that many of them were smart enough to think of that, and they did try it, and it didn't work for them.  You have to be open to listening to what people have to say, not theorizing without bothering to see whether your theory has any basis in validity for that person.  It's easy enough to make that mistake, and I've surely made it myself a number of times over the years.  I learned to stop.

A theory that makes sense, and fits situations you have seen, doesn't apply to everyone, even if it was valid for what you've seen.  That's my point.  People are desperately trying to oversimplify something that is extremely complex.

"My eyes hurt a lot when I go outside during the day" is not in the same category as "I'm 1000 years old", and you shouldn't pretend that it is.  You know better, and so does everyone else.  As for turning, the community decided to denounce it to keep away the kiddies.  They didn't decide it was invalid, they decided to lie about it, whether it was or not.  The younger folks were never let in on the whole thing, and thus you have the whole community saying it today, even the ones who believe differently.  There are still people who will tell you that it's worth it to lie just to keep away the 'vampabees'.
Sorry if you weren't let in on the ruse either.

Rather than adjusting your views to match those of the majority of the community, has it occurred to you that both can be correct?  That is sort of my point, after all.  VAMPIRISM IS NOT ALL ONE THING.

Damn Psion, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?  You seem a bit hostile.

Well, as you know, elders never tell me much.  Thats because, outside of some boards and some rare social gatherings, I dont participate in joining any houses or groups.  In part, this lets me stay out of house bias and some of the quirky things they believe.  In part, I have dealt with my entire process on my own.  As such, I will always listen, but fall on the pragmatic side of the house... a necessity for staying sane considering some of the cards I have been dealt.

Now you bring up a interesting point.  Are you implying that a majority of the elder community advocates turning but simply lie to the general public?  I know you do, but your version is more of what can best be described as a thrid party parasite.  I dont find that ethically an issue.. just peculiar.  Personally, it sounds like your group is being manipulated, but hey some people purposely contract tapeworm to reduce their allergies.  Now if you are really implying that the community at large is deceiving folks regarding turning.. that's a problem.. a big one.

But, I think if the communities want to be taken seriously, they need to apply some logic as well as honesty.  If you accept anything anyone comes up with.. you become a role play site.  Where is the line?  Do you make it?  Do I?  Do the elders?  If you lie to people, that comes out too and is even more damaging.

To be honest, I am skeptical with most people who claim vampirism.  Many of their symptoms can be explained by other things.  (Yes, light sensitivity being a easy target.. we have hammered that one to death but apparently it still bugs you).  Some times, a fever is just the body's way to fight an infection, not a quickening induced by a combination of the full moon and the ascending spirit of Ra in your physical form. 

Look at it this way, if you cant look at things logically first, you are going to have a hard time defending yourself to the greater public and not coming off like a loon.




Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 26, 2010, 11:53:29 pm
Yes, I believe distance healing and feeding is possible, as is most spell work.  Using the internet could be no different than using a bit of hair or blood or sigil to form a connection after all.  Is it needed?  No.  Can a theory be proposed that makes sense, drawing from the precident of what is widely accepted modes of magikal practice?  I think so.

Ah....I was thinking of it in a different way. I see where you are going with this and in that way and thinking a bit more on it, I guess it could be possible. Though doing spells and such for far too many years, I am thinking since the internet is still so impersonal, that one could use it maybe to assist in visualization of a person if that makes sense. Hard to explain my train of thought on this one, but more to help them concentrate on the person what ever is intended for would possibly work. Not sure about sending it through the computer or internet connection per say. But more to help them concentrate on that person. The hair, blood, nails, sigil and so on makes sure it hits it's mark and adds a bit more oomph if you need it to do so. Mostly I carefully word my spells and make herbal mixtures and such and just think about who it is intended for and that is it. I make my own candles so I can use what ever colors needed and mix the herbs in. Take the candle outside, say my spell and light the candle with a jug of water nearby as it seems the whole candle catches fire with huge leaping flames. Let it burn down and depending on the spell I take care of what is left of the candle.  I have not used things from the intended except for maybe 3 times in MANY years. Though someone needing to have something there to concentrate on could use the internet that way. Is that what you are talking about? Or have you heard more ways of using the internet than I obviously have. I really have not studied up on trying to use the internet in that way. I guess I am more old fashioned. Like dropping gopher dust on someone's shoes, or tossing graveyard dust at someone. There was the one time I used something from the intended and it was a picture. After two years of harassment I bound them in a box covered in mirrors on the inside of the box. So yeah...old fashioned and never looked up the possibities of actually doing stuff via internet.....


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 27, 2010, 10:07:00 am
(starting a new thread on technomancy :P )
http://www.atlantavampirealliance.com/forum/index.php?topic=1975.0


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on July 27, 2010, 12:24:45 pm
Wow... I see what is meant on the VVC private message about this being a heated debate.  I'm not going to call anyone out, as this is my first post on the AVA boards... It's not my place to anyway, I am merely a guest here (thanks Mert and AVA for the invite, btw)...

I've been around the community since 1978 and for you younger members that was before the advent of the internet.  There has been cyclic rises and falls within the community to where it seems like every Tom, Dick and Harry were claiming vampirism to damn near impossible searches for any other living soul who would even recognize that possibility within themselves.

I've seen everything thrown out in this topic from 'elitism' to 'trolling' to 'degradation' to 'moderators hold too tightly to the reins' to 'moderators don't fulfill their jobs properly' to 'not enough control' thrown out... And that was just the first couple of pages.

Yep... All of it exists in the OVC...  Much of it exists in the real world vampire community as well... Take the 'elitism' issue for example.  I've personally been called out on both sides of the line on that one.  I'm not an elitist, but I do feel that vampirism lists should deal with vampirism issues.  Adding more issues than vampirism to a vampirism list becomes far too complicated and half of the vampires aren't even sure of what they are... **does that make sense to anyone other than myself?  Sorry. I'm feeling like a gnat's fart in a whirlwind again, so my concentration level is a bit... iffy**  What would go a long way to lessen this problem would be an accepted, 'living' definition of vampirism.  This would give us more stability in the realm of 'what is a vampire?'.

The fact that there is no hard, cohesive scientific proof will always be a problem.

People coming into groups without fully reading nor accepting the rules of a group will always be a problem...  One that some of us take great care to avoid, but sometimes also avidly enjoy 'toying' with...  I've done this on more than one occasion, simply because it generally gives me another way to poke fun at myself, most of all.

Trolls.  Sooner or later, no matter how careful you are, one or three always slide in.  Sometimes, they are tolerated because what they have to say, for the most part, is just plain old common sense that just needs to be thrown out there.

Moderators.  Give up. What one person calls tyrannical another will say is their 'safe harbor'...

Participation in general?  There are far too many groups, too willing to trash or allow to be trashed far too many other groups.  When one can't find a home in one, they merely bounce around until they do.  I've personally limited my access now to two open forums, two multi-Elder/House arenas and my own personal, closed House forums.  I've been thrashed and burned in some groups, praised in others and the whole time, if you look at my style of posting, haven't changed since the early 90s...  I've added a few more knocks to myself here and there, gotten a little more stodgy and stubborn on certain issues, but for the most part haven't changed.

A great problem, that I see, isn't so much the elitism as the anonymity factor.  People hide behind fake pictures, caricatures, art pieces and expect another person to trust them implicitly...  Give me a break on that one.  I live out in the open, have always had a picture (current) of me up and moved through open circles, such as Jackson Square, where I make my presence readily known so that people CAN approach me... **I realize that not everyone lives in so accepting a city, but sooner or later, if you desire my trust, a real picture of you is needed**  Yes, for the most part I am a trusting person and take people at their word, however, I've never been so trusting as to invite someone into my personal home without knowing what they look like, who I am expecting to see, however the hell you want to say it.

"Anonymity is the death of personal relationships" (author unknown) This quote stuck with me throughout my high school years and its never been more true than in our own online community... More than 3/4s of the people I 'chat' with are truly 'unknown' to me.  I've not 'seen' them...  I wouldn't know them if they passed me on the street.  Again, I understand that not everyone lives in so accepting an area as I do, however, that doesn't preclude a "hey, this is what I look like" in a private message now, does it?  Several people even have my personal cell phone number, because I am the type of person that believes in open communication...

Anonymity also gives people the extra added bonus of just plain acting like an asshat whenever they desire.  It supports arrogance, vehemence, elitism and all of the things people complain about within the community.  Am I saying everyone should live openly... NO.  But if we are going to make a headway at doffing some of the crap that is mentioned, then there are some very basic steps that are going to need to be taken within the community.

A lack of anonymity between Elders/House Leaders/Community Leaders should play a pivotal role, as well as a working, 'living' definition of vampirism...  More static terms wouldn't hurt either...  Yes, you are always going to have regionally accepted terms, but for the general community, a list of terms should be made available so that any newly awakened person can begin to understand what they are more readily... (yeah... I know... THAT old soap box again... lol... Told you I was getting stodgy in some things)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on July 27, 2010, 01:13:49 pm
Very interesting first post.

I think you have captured quite a bit of what could be said on the topic.

Elitism, vs anonymity.  This gets interesting and worth further discussion.

At its very core, vampirism in modern times seems to be a very nebulous definition at best.  Once, it was more or less reserved with those who had to drink the blood of another in order to continue their lives.  There was obviously a metaphysical connection implied, with the antagonist weilding supernatural powers as a result.  But it has come to represent energy feeders as well, among many other things.  In essence, the term vampire has now come to describe anyone who uses any sort of vampiric feeding, regardless of need.  The definition and resultant descriptors become so broad, there are bound to be conflicts.

The vamprie has, for some, become a sort of arch-typical figure unto itself, almost deified, and some members of the community seek to embody that pattern, or so it would seem.  This is bound to create almost a religious approach to belief and stance, but considering how much of vampirism needs to be accepted on faith.

I think Eliteism happens as a way to keep the feet on the ground.  Certainly, it can be taken too far and be a self destructive element in its own regard.  I am sure, a few consider myself to be an Elitist in my own mind, but I really dont think so.  I simply attempt to be very pragmatic in my theories and what I accept.  Part of that, is yes a baseline definition of vampire which feels that it is an individual who needs to feed on another life force in order to function optimally.  This is different than being able to use vampiric methods which many can do.  Is it elietist of me to be skeptical of a person insisting they are a vampire because they have clear fingernails and suggest looking at a dietary deficiency first?  I supppose so, but I am comfortable with that if that is the case.

Anonymity.. ah, the beauty of the web.  Certainly it can be misused to full effect, and quite often is.  Just the ability to jump boards at will is significant.  Like you, I am open as to who I am, and certainly think the communities as a whole could use more of it.  Guess you are preaching to the chior in that regard.  I find, to combat the negative effects of this trend, it is best to keep a history.  Very often that is up to the individual to remember deeds and behavior.  Reputation is a major thing in any community, but espicially in one such as this.  IE, can reputation be used to combat anonymity?



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 27, 2010, 03:07:22 pm
I agree with many of the things you said, Belfazaar.  Welcome, and congrats by the way.  :-) 

I agree with you regarding your comments about what will always be a problem, the scientific proof aspect, and the troll issue. 

However, regarding the anonymity factor, I will respond with a quote from the anime show, Death Note, in which the main character Light finds a book in which he can write names in the book, and by doing so, kills the person whose name was written. 

---

A young girl is shown messaging a website from her cellphone: "Kira, Kill Everyone."
Light is shown sitting at his computer, looking at a website, where the message is now showing, along with many others.

Light: Websites like this are popping up everywhere lately. 

Ryuk: The legend of Kira The Savior.  Huh, sounds pretty cool.  Is this about you?

Light: Yea...I think they've taken the name Kira from the english word Killer.  Can't say I'm too happy about that, but, it looks like that's the name they've decided to give me.  When I search the word Kira, I'm pulling up tons of sites just like this one.  The media hasn't picked up on it.  Their still call this a succession of unexplained deaths among the worlds most hardened criminals.  But, the people of the world can already sense that there's something happening.  They know there's someone out there passing righteous judgement. 

Ryuk: Oh?

Light:  Human beings are like that, Ryuk.  Although this would probably never happen in school, let's say that students were asked to discuss whether bad people deserve to die.  Well, you can bet that everyone would give the politically correct answer. 

-girl stands up in imaginary situation-
"It's just wrong to kill people."

That's what their bound to say.  Of course, that's the correct response to give, right?  Humans will always try to maintain appearances when their in public.  That's just how we are.  But this is how they really feel. -looks back at the screen-  Most are too afraid to support me because their worried about what others will think.  Many would rather deny my existence.  But on the internet, where you can remain anonymous, support for Kira is growing.  Maybe people are afraid to say it out loud, but they all understand whats happening.  Someone's making the bad guys disappear one by one.  Those who have done no wrong are cheering for Kira in their hearts because they have nothing to fear, while those who have done wrong are on the run.  They're forced to hide from an unknown entity.

---

Keeping this situation in context, my point is, anonymity allows us to be able to see how people really feel.  Just a thought. 

Another thought I have is that well, even people I thought I knew through and through personally, including those that have been my significant other, have been able to keep their true feelings anonymous from me, only revealing themselves to me through eventually being cornered by circumstances. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on July 27, 2010, 11:42:55 pm
Now you bring up a interesting point.  Are you implying that a majority of the elder community advocates turning but simply lie to the general public? 

Probably more like half of them.

I know you do, but your version is more of what can best be described as a thrid party parasite.  I dont find that ethically an issue.. just peculiar.  Personally, it sounds like your group is being manipulated, but hey some people purposely contract tapeworm to reduce their allergies. 

I suppose it is 'my version' in that I have the most personal experience with it, but I was not A) the actual first person to discover it, and B) it's far from the only way this can happen, I know of at least 2 others which are completely unrelated (and do not involve spirit entities).  As I said, vampirism is not all one thing.

Now if you are really implying that the community at large is deceiving folks regarding turning.. that's a problem.. a big one.

I think it's a big problem, too.  I've made my opinion on it pretty clear.  I think it's a seriously BAD thing to be telling to youngsters who have no idea what they are doing.  You want to know what actually doesn't exist?  "Induced awakening".  Unless you're 13 years old, there is no such thing.  Because it's turning, not 'awakening'.  Awakening happens to kids coming into puberty.

But, I think if the communities want to be taken seriously, they need to apply some logic as well as honesty.  If you accept anything anyone comes up with.. you become a role play site.  Where is the line?  Do you make it?  Do I?  Do the elders?  If you lie to people, that comes out too and is even more damaging.

The argument is that this lie protects the community from teens who want to come in and beg to be turned, and it protects kids from seeking out being turned when this is something they shouldn't be pursuing (particularly if they're underage). 
My counter-argument is that you have teen vamps out there turning other kids because they believe it's 'induced awakening', and all of their friends mysteriously turned out to be vampires and just didn't know it.
Yes, this isn't something all types of vampires can do.  It's not going to work for everyone who tries it, understandably.  It also doesn't work ON everyone, nor always last for more than a year if it does, but it is happening, and it's a really upsetting idea that it's happening WITHOUT full informed knowledge and consent, because of this lie that the community has chosen to participate in maintaining.  That's what I have the biggest problem with.  This is not something that should be happening ACCIDENTALLY.

To be honest, I am skeptical with most people who claim vampirism.  Many of their symptoms can be explained by other things.  (Yes, light sensitivity being a easy target.. we have hammered that one to death but apparently it still bugs you).  Some times, a fever is just the body's way to fight an infection, not a quickening induced by a combination of the full moon and the ascending spirit of Ra in your physical form. 

It's a really basic thing.  If a person needs blood or energy to function normally, they are a vampire.  If they aren't sure whether or not they need it, they need only go without it to test their theory.  The rest of the symptoms could be attributed to the type of vampire they are, or even to things unrelated to their vampirism.

Look at it this way, if you cant look at things logically first, you are going to have a hard time defending yourself to the greater public and not coming off like a loon.

I think the problem is that the community spending too much time worrying about what the greater public THINKS of them, and not nearly enough time exploring ITSELF with an open mind.  There are ALWAYS going to be philosophical differences among the diverse members of the OVC.
One of the points I am trying to make is that the people who think their vampirism is purely physical, and the people who think their vampirism is purely psychic, can BOTH BE COMPLETELY CORRECT.  They don't have to argue with one another over it, or hold a contest to see who is more legitimate, or denounce each other as a fraud, or whatever. 

Yes, there does need to be a point at which you draw the line, and decide someone is either unbalanced or lying.  No, there is written out list of things that will help you figure out exactly where that line is in all cases, because some legitimate people are going to cross it, and some loons are going to seem legitimate, and that is something the community will just have to deal with--on a case by case basis.  You can't create a policy for it, because we DO NOT UNDERSTAND VAMPIRISM WELL ENOUGH to determine where the line should be drawn.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 27, 2010, 11:58:12 pm
The anonymity is, and has been, a lie though. People believe that things sent though the internet can not be tracked to the person who sent them and this is wrong. Basic TCP/IP class; when you send something it is encapsulated in one or more "packets" each having the place that they are going to and where to return the requested information to as a four part Internet Protocol address; many people have seen them before, such as 127.0.0.1, or 168.0.0.1. Now, that the receiver at both ends logs this information in a cache file for later communications to make it quicker next time. Now for the more difficult stuff; every packet goes every direction possible. so one can, if that have access, listen for packets going to one particular IP; called sniffing. Mostly this is done as a part of a major investigation where they are afraid of spooking those being investigated. Now, how do they know who had what IP address as my Internet Service Provider, ISP, uses dynamic address? (where the IP is only given to a user temporarily and can be changed at anytime.) The ISPs log who has what IP address and when they had it for is the short version. Now, what about the oh so anonymous websites? Let's take this one for an example. When running a WhoIs query at whois.networksolutions.com, who is rather expensive for having the same services and many of the ICANN registrars by the way, will return a name and address at Network Solutions Inc.. That does not stop a legal agency as the information is fully visible to them, and if it is visible to one person they stand a chance of maybe passing the hidden information on to those with enough money, patience, and time that would want to investigate that information. Given enough time, patience, drive, and ingenuity anyone can find out anything.
How is this related to the topic? Only by the fact that people keep talking about how "anonymous" the internet is; it is not, and never has been truly. It's only a good screen standing by the open window; and it falls just as easy with the right application of wind.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 28, 2010, 12:15:23 am
You can't create a policy for it, because we DO NOT UNDERSTAND VAMPIRISM WELL ENOUGH to determine where the line should be drawn.

The question is then why, in the 18 years that I have known about the vampire community by suddenly finding myself part of it, or the 14 years that I have known of the online community, has there been virtually no progress in understanding the thing that would help the most; ourselves? Why hasn't there been a definitive study and survey before just recently?
Ok, I just hit the point where I realize that a decline may be a blessing to advancement of understanding; but not if everyone continues in petty arguments as has been seen in  this thread; not to mention the countless others through out the internet. That is part of what I was talking about in my expansive letter I sent out a while back; but I have yet to see more than 'yeah that's a good idea' from those that agree for the most part. This AVA, along with the VVC, seem to have done more to understand what is going on in the last few years than had been done in the 10 years before; and there is less of them looking at the problem. Then again, I will admit I have much more to do than be online all day crawling through every site that exists though.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 28, 2010, 12:29:20 am
Very good first post I think.

As far as the not having scientific proof, I'll do some more looking into it, but I am not sure we should worry ourselves with that so much. I have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. I am not sure if anyone on here is familiar with this disease, but in order to find out of you have it, they take MANY viles of blood to test for everything in existance. Yeah, I was not doing well after that doctor visit for sure. They then wait for all of the results to come in and if you are negative on other diseases and other things are not really off in the tests, which anemia was off on mine but would not account for my symptoms...the medical profession will tag you with Fibromyalgia. Basically you are clear on all tests so, you have this disease. One they still do not fully comprehend what all the symptoms are and such. There is no way to directly test for it. It is more test for everything else and if you are left with nothing, then that is what it is. So if a doctor of medicine can't find nothing on tests run to make this assessment, then load me down with medications to ease the full body pains, why are we worried about scientific proof? They have tried to gather information to find out more about it and they THINK it might be genetically passed. From what information I have gotten, it always includes "Not much is known about this disease and scientists and doctors are working hard to learn more about it". I think Vampirism would end up in the same way as Fibromyalgia. Just something to think about and ponder.

Anonymity does make people say things that they really feel. People are not so pressured to kiss behinds or keep to politically correct conversations. Unless like me, I had made a name for myself online in the pit bull community. When people would meet me in person at shows and we would talk, they always made statements that I am the same online as I am off line. They would quickly figure out who I was. It was sickening how many butt kissers would follow me around shows and people would stand there in awe. So I began changing my online name to mix it up a bit. Took no time for folks to figure out I was the same new name and would quickly connect me to my old name. I have no anonymity in the pit bull community what so ever. So as an example...some people are the same online and off line. My problem is I really do not like my name so I do not want to see Tara by every post I make lol. Which has backfired as many people know me as Nadia and Raven in the real world. So when people call out those names I tend to keep walking thinking it is not me and end up being labeled a snob. I digress though...anonymity  is really only so if people keep online and offline lives two very different things.  As a warning, my insomnia medicine has kicked in and as you can see I ramble, but hopefully points I am trying to make can be understood.

The avatars/pictures...I think many of those do sort of show a little bit of the person. It is a picture or artwork of their personality. personally I hate my pictures. So I use something that fits my personality. I like sick jokes, so the WALDO tombstone is right up my ally so to speak. But hey...if someone wants to scare them self insane
(http://thumbs.webs.com/Members/viewThumb.jsp?fileID=180055692&size=thumb) (http://thumbs.webs.com/Members/viewThumb.jsp?fileID=180055625&size=thumb)
I am also not afraid to show pictures of myself. I hate them, but I will show them. And when I do...yes, those are recent pictures, yes I swear I am 36 years old, no...those are not contacts..those are my real eye color. I think I got it covered. So as far as the anonymity goes, it may be really who and how they are and they are not really trying to be anonymous but just have weird quirks like I do.

 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 28, 2010, 01:24:07 am
Of course, there is the whole concept of "Accept me! Im REAL Dammit! REEAAALLL!, Cause I said so!" crap that seems to inundate all the kin boards since day one too.

However, i think Demzon nailed it nicely - there does not seem to be much incentive in actually MAKING the community learn and grow overall; seems to be more desire to simply cause and do dumb crap. Granted, a few people, like Mert, have tried - but most are either too obsessed with their drama causing cliques, or, like me, dont WANT any more attention than we already get.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 28, 2010, 10:19:55 am
Very interesting posts here. 

Nadia, I am sorry you have Fibro.  I am the daughter of a mother who has had it for over a decade.  The effects of it are unbelievably hard, and in all honesty, it was a big factor in the demolition of the structure of my family.  As far as I know, Fibromyalgia is grouped with a newer(ish) category of what folks are calling "unseen diseases".  POTS is another one.  Fibro in particular is pretty controversial, as many doctors still classify it as an illusionary condition, based off of self-induced stress, the result of traumas in a persons past.  Some of them seem to feel that the severe and overwhelming muscle pain described is actually an illusion.  Honestly, as a result of the fact that it's in a specific demographic (women 30 and over), and has come into occurring more and more in a specific span of time (over the last 25-30 years ago it would seem), I wonder if there is some sort of manufactured product specifically effecting and targeting specific women, but....who is to know.  The bottom line is that it's a terrible hell to endure every day, and I just wanted to add my two cents while the topic was brought up that I'm aware of it personally, and wanted to offer support in general. 

As far as the relation to vampirism in the context you referred to, I think that the medical community is concerned about proof of the disease, but with women coming into doctors offices left and right in tears from the agony of the pain, telling everyone who will listen that there is a severely huge problem with their body, they are not able to just stand there and necessarily do nothing until they've solved the problem in it's entirety, or it could easily turn into a panic from how much pain women have described they endure.  Furthermore, people are not coming into doctors offices left and right screaming in agony that they need blood.  It effects us severely yes, but in much more subtle and dynamic ways than Fibro might.  So, pressure might not be on as much for the medical community to take it seriously.  We live in a society of extremes.  Many people only notice what is extreme in nature, and allow themselves to become lazy, and instead of looking for the balance in their lives, they stoop to the extreme measures.  Eventually that has become what is noticed anymore, for the most part.  The news indulges and feeds on this for ratings every day, and as a drug user would describe their drug cravings, eventually a fire that burned 10 people isn't shocking enough anymore.  People become desensitized, and so the media and others take more and more extreme measures to get the same results, rather than simply allowing themselves the peace that balance brings.  Where there is a dollar to be made, lazy and power-hungry people have become addicted quite easily. 

In my opinion, eventually the weight of the painbody energy of the human consciousness will cave in on itself.  Eventually we will not be able to maintain the gravity of how ridiculous it is.  In some form or fashion, something will eventually have to give way.

I know I got sort of off topic, I meant to, but I simply felt it was necessary in the flow of the conversation. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Merticus on July 28, 2010, 10:30:35 am
These are good threads for Fibromyalgia discussions:

http://www.atlantavampirealliance.com/forum/index.php?topic=1202.0
http://www.atlantavampirealliance.com/forum/index.php?topic=645.0


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 28, 2010, 10:43:05 am
Thanks Merticus. :)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on July 28, 2010, 11:58:21 am
Well, as I am sure Mert would be quick to point out, you can't do proper research without lots and lots of money.  How many rich vampires do you know?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: NyteMuse on July 28, 2010, 12:08:08 pm
Why hasn't there been a definitive study and survey before just recently?

If you are referring to the VEWRS/AVEWRS surveys, with all due respect to Mert/AVA/Suscitatio, they are not definitive, at least not the full connotation of the word. From a statistical viewpoint, the sample is not demonstrative of the population by nature of the sampling method. I know Merticus sent the majority out/posted/advertised on dozens, if not hundreds of lists and forums and communities, but that doesn't reach all of the VC as there are many who shun the online stuff. (Some were printed/distributed, but considering how many offliners aren't exactly public or don't connect with the "vampire" label, I'm sure there was still only limited coverage.) Also, even if every single person in the VC participated in the groups targeted, the sample only consists of people who desired to expend the effort to return the survey before the deadline. So instead of the sample representing the population of "all people IDing as vampires", the population was more "all people IDing as vampires who participate in the online community who were willing to fill out a survey." Sampling method aside, some of the questions were moderately suggestive or leading, thus leaving room for bias.

Again, not bashing the survey project. I completed both of them myself and respect Mert and everyone involved for the work they did on it. (And I believe most of them are aware of the problems with the method I mentioned above) It's a great step, but let's call a spade a spade. Great survey, put together some great data, not definitive.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on July 28, 2010, 05:51:59 pm
Very interesting first post.

I think you have captured quite a bit of what could be said on the topic.

Elitism, vs anonymity.  This gets interesting and worth further discussion.

At its very core, vampirism in modern times seems to be a very nebulous definition at best.  Once, it was more or less reserved with those who had to drink the blood of another in order to continue their lives.  There was obviously a metaphysical connection implied, with the antagonist weilding supernatural powers as a result.  But it has come to represent energy feeders as well, among many other things.  In essence, the term vampire has now come to describe anyone who uses any sort of vampiric feeding, regardless of need.  The definition and resultant descriptors become so broad, there are bound to be conflicts.

The vamprie has, for some, become a sort of arch-typical figure unto itself, almost deified, and some members of the community seek to embody that pattern, or so it would seem.  This is bound to create almost a religious approach to belief and stance, but considering how much of vampirism needs to be accepted on faith.

I think Eliteism happens as a way to keep the feet on the ground.  Certainly, it can be taken too far and be a self destructive element in its own regard.  I am sure, a few consider myself to be an Elitist in my own mind, but I really dont think so.  I simply attempt to be very pragmatic in my theories and what I accept.  Part of that, is yes a baseline definition of vampire which feels that it is an individual who needs to feed on another life force in order to function optimally.  This is different than being able to use vampiric methods which many can do.  Is it elietist of me to be skeptical of a person insisting they are a vampire because they have clear fingernails and suggest looking at a dietary deficiency first?  I supppose so, but I am comfortable with that if that is the case.

Anonymity.. ah, the beauty of the web.  Certainly it can be misused to full effect, and quite often is.  Just the ability to jump boards at will is significant.  Like you, I am open as to who I am, and certainly think the communities as a whole could use more of it.  Guess you are preaching to the chior in that regard.  I find, to combat the negative effects of this trend, it is best to keep a history.  Very often that is up to the individual to remember deeds and behavior.  Reputation is a major thing in any community, but espicially in one such as this.  IE, can reputation be used to combat anonymity?



Elitism, in and of itself is not a dangerous and deadly thing.  It is when it is coupled with such things as anonymity or superiority complexes that it becomes dangerous.  "Elitism is just a self-imposed form of segregation to help set groups understand WHY they are a set group"  This was a quote from my Grandmother...  Elitism can come in the form of social, political, religious or even hair color groupings... It can be used as a way to strengthen structure, share insights and experiences with like-minded peoples and/or show support for those within your group that are suffering in some way, shape or form.

Anonymity, however, which I have to disagree with SangSavvy on, is just another way for a person to show their ass without another person being able to truly call them on it.  More often than not, the person hidden behind the fake pictures, artwork, what they looked like 20 years ago or whathaveyou will only treat a person who differs from them as if they are weak, lesser, subordinate...  Although we have a good number of great people within the community who do not show their face for whatever reason they deem necessary, we have 5 times the number of asshats who are only out to make themselves feel better by using cruelty in their every post, being combative of people offering differing views or downright belligerent and openly scoffing any "rules" in place on particular forums.

I've been a part of the community since I was 13 (I am 45 now) and the sad fact is, anonymity breeds more parasites within ANY community than it offers safe harbor for those who need it.  Yeah.  We all have a chosen name we go by or whathaveyou, but when a person gets to know me in the real world as well as online, they find that I AM the same person.  Cracking just as many bad jokes about myself in the real world as I do online...  And believe me, I got more than enough to crack bad jokes about...  I simply do not hide, especially if I am supposed to be in a position to aid or educate someone about vampirism...

The living definition used by the House of Mystic Echoes and accepted by NOVA (New Orleans Vampire Association) is as follows:

ĒVampirism is a physiological condition wherein the afflicted personís body does not either produce enough, or none at all, of the essential energies to maintain a proper balance of physical, mental and emotional well-being and must, therefore, turn to outside sources to attain these energies. These sources range from blood to psychic energy to empathic energy to elemental energy to the ambient negative energy present every day to eclectic mixes of any of the above sources.Ē

I use the term 'living' definition because, as we learn more and more about our condition, we alter the definition to include it IF... And I do mean "IF"... If it is a necessary change.  We have a set of agreed upon terms for the general community which do not include terms that are House/Clan/Coven/Order specific (of course this also doesn't include terms like "hybrid", "tantric", "incubus/succubus"... We strayed from those terms early on in the community for whatever reasons and going back to pick them up is such a waste of effort).  Our Council is set up as a Round Table, though I am a very public face and have been dubbed 'the Mayor' by the other NOVA members, I am not the leader of the Council.  No one is.  We did it this way to keep ourselves in check so that no one gets "Heap Big Chief Headupass" Syndrome.  It has worked too.  We put things to vote, meet regularly, are in constant communication... Even during heated discussions... This Council was formed in October of 2005 and has grown from the initial 2 Houses to 7...  We work towards community projects that include ALL aspects of the New Orleans community, not just the vampires... 

The reason... We have established ourselves, met physically, exchanged numbers/email, established a working, 'living' definition and come up with a CoE that benefits the whole of our local vampire community as well as its supporters...  The establishment of who we are, as real people, to each other, despite that some still live within anonymity, has kept us growing...  In private, I can call them by their given names and they can do the same for me... In public we go by our chosen names...  We don't hide... Especially from each other...

After all, how can we truly support each other, if we are too busy hiding from one another?

"The only thing a mask ever did was complete the lie of the person behind it"...  Even the Lone Ranger hid behind a mask to complete his lie...  It allowed him to work outside the confines of the law to seek his revenge... This from the original books NOT the old TV series or radio serial... Anonymity, though a boon and blessing to a few merely gives rise to the hatred suppressed by others...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on July 28, 2010, 06:27:25 pm

How is this related to the topic? Only by the fact that people keep talking about how "anonymous" the internet is; it is not, and never has been truly. It's only a good screen standing by the open window; and it falls just as easy with the right application of wind.

My issue isn't with the anonymity of the internet, it is the anonymity people place on themselves by hiding behind false images, such as artwork, caricatures or pictures from 20 years in that person's past (learned the hard way on that one when I went to visit a 'friend' who had this glamorous photo up to find out in reality, though she shared her real name, she was a short, fat, middle-aged twatwaffle of a She-harlot-egomaniacal-manipulating-poop... AKA Shemp)...

I tell everyone that I have no room to judge anyone for their past, past actions, past comments or current... I respond to posts, much like everyone else, which is usually dictated by my mood, whether I am ill or not, how much fun I can poke at myself (let alone the rest of the community) and how much experience in the topic I have to share.

All I ask, is that if you truly want to be my friend and expect me to trust you, don't hide...  All it takes is a private email to say, "Hey Zaar, this is who I am...  Thought I would put that out there for you." or some other such thing...  Like I mentioned, I understand that not everyone can be so open... They either don't live in a place like New Orleans, have fears of reprisal, loss of income, loss of children or whathaveyou, but that doesn't mean it can't be done... It just takes a simple private message...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Darklilone on July 28, 2010, 06:38:52 pm
as far as anonymity, i try to keep to a single icon. such as the one i use now. That way, though my true face may not be widely known or recognized, i can be, in a sense.
I also usually, if the option is available will include various real pictures of myself and my life (such as loved pets or images that  just appeal to me).  This way, they are available but not obvious or in your face. you have to have some level of interest at first and show it with a small bit of effort by asking or clicking.
If one wants to know who i am, they simply need to ask. I don't lie, i have no reason to, but i will not openly show myself or divulge personal information. this is the interenet. while i'm not totally afraid of loosing my job or anything, i'd rather not risk the wrong information falling into the wrong hands..


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 28, 2010, 08:15:07 pm
Belfazaar,

I think the points you made were very accurate, and very understandable.  I have to say, I understand your points a lot more now, and can agree with many of them.  Although, I've personally felt that even with the anonymity, there's still a way to regulate the anonymous posters, and that that has not been done.  There doesn't seem to be enough people awake to the mentalities that are not only irresponsible, but should be outlawed by the vampiric communities as a whole on the most basic of levels. 

Furthermore, I have to tell you, after the trust I put in others in the past from this community, spawning from the online world to the real world, a simple private message is anything but safe in my eyes anymore.  ESPECIALLY with folks abilities to energetically harm others these days.  To private message someone, for various people, can be the the most dangerous and risky thing a person can do, with the type of people that thrive all around the vampiric community.  Honestly, I tried doing that, and it 110% blew up in my face.  I have learned that if a person can get away with something not very nice, most people will.  I personally do not understand this mentality or actual demonstrative alliance with using and abusing someones trust, and feeding off of the "power" that gives a person.  ...I suppose I can understand the mentality objectively slightly, and sure sometimes I have very mild strains of this, as I think everyone does to some degree, but time and time again in the recent year or two, I have found myself saying, "If I treated you the way you are treating me right now, you would be absolutely and ridiculously bullsh!t." 

I think it's absolutely amazing that you have sought to organize your vampiric community in New Orleans, and have had so much success in doing so.  I think it takes not only a strong person to do such a thing, but a strong *group* of people... All that I have really seen as a "kid" in this vampiric community as I have watched those older than me, has been deceit, anger, miscommunication, lack of transparency...and honestly, the only thing that has led me to be able to learn more about a person has been me having to resort to the only thing I can use, and that is the anonymity factor, to gain information about a person, as while anonymous, they might let things they like to hide about their ulterior motive slip out.  (Key word *might*.)  Obviously those who read this that might have motives to seek to harm me now have that knowledge, and I wouldn't really be able to use this radar tactic anymore.  However, I think it is important to come out and talk about it.  I stand by the points I have made in the past regarding how many are so used to being in crash positions for so long now, so it's very hard to break this cycle and mentality. 

Personally, I take the knowledge of a persons true motives very seriously.  When it comes to politics, or friendships, or vampirism, I've felt the sting throughout my life from nearly every person I have ever known on a personal level, (most of all my mother, of all people), of types of people who on a continuous basis are appallingly and outrageously two-faced, manipulative, deceitful, harmful, callous, and bold-faced liars.  Many people, furthermore, seem to be unconscious of these urges to "overpower" another person...to feel better than, and to enhance their own egos.  I absolutely have a hard time with it sometimes, but really, my type of a "hard time" with it has been nothing compared to the types of people I have met.  When it came to the vampire community, I have met some of the pinnacles of this sort of game-playing.  To have the innate trust and ability from a young person, to make a life-long impression on that young person who is looking for guidance with their vampirism, and to thrive on feeling "powerful" off of that, using it to further enhance ones own pride, and initiate things within them that compliment the same mentality, or even worse, set them up for becoming a life-long "minion" for a cat-toy or jester, is a very real thing in this community, and in my opinion it is not only disguised, highly overlooked, highly ignored, highly underestimated, and but it is at its core just simply appalling. 

So, with all due respect Belfazaar, if you are asking someone like me with my past experience to "just pm me, its cool", I cannot trust that.  Unfortunately, there are so many people like what I have described not only in the vampiric community, but everywhere, that those people ruin it for the good ones.  For myself personally, I cannot just trust someone with my personal information, especially something as identifiable as my picture, at least not outright, and I never ask someone to trust me outright.  I ask them to ask themselves if they trust me, if their gut tells them so.  I don't think that I would stand alone on this side of the argument, I think this is a big reason why many mods and full members of the community are so leery and mistrusting of others, when in those private quiet personal moments of their friendships with one another over the years, the vampiric natures conflicted and collided in a fireworks display so much that it's just not a place that they are willing to visit again.  Many have been through so much bs that they have lost all energy for this motivation, or hope that it would be successful.  Meanwhile, the miscreant jerks are the ones running around as "moderators".  Perhaps the trust you share with the people in your community is just so genuine and good-hearted that you may have lost sight of the fact that these horrendous types of people still exist.  Course, it's actually hard for me to get angry at that...as I personally pine for such a life. 



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on July 28, 2010, 11:07:36 pm
This is very true Sang. The squeeky wheel gets oiled type thing. All I know is that due to an accident I have triple scoliosis and had swallowed down the pain for YEARS. Then the other pains started up and I dealt with it the same way until this winter when I started dropping things or letting go of something I was pulling. It got to the point I had basically just finally said "ENOUGH!" and drug my rear end to the doctor. When I started telling them I had pain all over, felt like I was walking on needles and my hands were so stiff and in so much pain I did not even want to pick up a fork to eat, they knew I was serious because I despise having to cave in and go to a doctor. That to me it is like admitting I am being weak. Drives my doctor absolutely insane I am like this, but he at least knows that it really is something when I come in to see him lol. So they took me very seriously and quickly began searching for a reason. Thank you very much for your support.

Though I would like to be at a hospital when 15-20 vampires run in yelling in pain and begging for blood to ease that pain....with a camera....I see what you are saying in respect to vampirism. I know it is different, but they know there are diseases and such out there that they do not have a test for and are considered "unseen"...I was wondering if there was anything we could do to gain some interest to help.

Thank you Merticus for the links! I'll be sure to check them out.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 28, 2010, 11:45:58 pm
What is anonymity? Its a shield, a protective barrier that allows some who's personal position would be compromised or threatened, simply for being part of a community or group or action. It offers some comfort, others the ability to do something that otherwise, they would be ostracized, harassed, excommunicated, unemployed, or all of the above and worse, simply for exploring something.  All too often I hear these public vamps - you among them, Belfazaar - say that anonymity is a bad thing, that we cant help if we are hidden, etc. Well, Guess what?

The internet allows this, if used with discretion. I mean yes, someone like me, its not hard for people to figure out who I am or where I live - but I haven't exactly made a secret of it either.  For others - youth in particular - access to the internet, if they use it wisely, allows them to see what would normally not be exposed to them, and be part of something, learn about something that otherwise, they may not have a hope in Hades for.  I have personally known what has happened to people that outed themselves to their families - often, it results in severe stress for all involved, and in at least one case I know of, it resulted in a young woman being committed by her fundamentalist family, AFTER I strongly recommended she not do so.  However, because she was so hyped up on the garbage spouted off by all these out people that don't HAVE to care about others, she did so anyway - and is paying the price for it.

Its funny, too, how Elitism goes directly hand in hand with the lack of anonymity - that is, the more public they are, with some exception of course,  the more elite you will see these persons be. The list I could rattle off is a long one, suffice it to say, MANY of the regulars out there who are out and public are just as - if not more -- elitist.

Now, insofar as honesty goes - that is something  Ive gotten roasted on, far too many times, believing people I should of - and hells, often DID - know better, but I said, hey, Im a forgiving and trusting type, try again. Yea, apparently, Im one of the few out there with the honesty, integrity, strength, and decency, to stand up and say what I mean and mean what I say. Granted, I constantly see feeble minded types that have a bone to pick with me and who/what I am try to mutilate that, but I do what I can to prove my words and actions, despite their efforts.  I make mistakes, I can be in error, but I go out of my way to be as honest as possible - up to the point it comes to the protection of myself or those I care for. If I feel there is a risk in THAT regard, hells yes, I'll lie right thru my teeth - but online, I find I have to do that very very rarely indeed. Further, I know to and for myself the difference in such regard  -- but with many I see here, I honestly doubt that even THEY see the lies and crap they spin.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Taris on July 29, 2010, 12:29:10 am
I wonder. Is it all the elitism that pushes away those who seek? Is it those who would say nay you are wrong? Is it those who would bicker and bitch about anything and everything anyone would say or believe?


There is too much drama and bullshit in the scene both physical and electronical to really stress being apart of it alot may think. I have dealt with it since 15 and will continue to as I contact those both on here and in rl or real life. All i have to say is it is fucking stupid. I am going to be my blunt self and put it all out as I am sick of it. For the past 7 years I have been part of the community both in the physical and the electronic I wonder.

Is this what those who started the experiment would expect? Lol I am sure they expected some but to this extent? We are all US, We all feed, cause drama to feed, and some of us hide in the shadows watching and waiting. I personally wonder when people will get tired of the drama, name saying, finger pointing, and random other BULLSHIT and move onto the topic at hand. The SPIRITUALITY. We sit here and complain about people and wonder why they are how they are. THIS IS MUNDANE BULLSHIT. Why do we look without when within is a wealth of information? Why do we feed the dramas if not to feed from the energy invoked. The poking and proding of matters far past? DRAMA. The asking of things which would be uncourteous? AGAIN DRAMA.

Does the whole of the scene feed on this?

I personally sought the elders for knowledge and found none. I sought the forums also for this and found little. I sought myself for this and found MUCH. Why do we all worry about the BULLSHIT that is numbers? STATUS. Those to look up to us and say "WOW, they've been in for 3 years they must know what the fuck they are talking about" Sorry but i met those in for 10 and didnt know shit but the clubs and how many different types of DRUGS will get them fucked up. I have met those who have said initially the SANGUINARIUM was naught but for drugs. That person sadly has passed =/ but I continue. If we set aside our differences and the BULLSHIT coming from that then we would all gain. We would all learn and grow. I am tired of the hierarchical systems and the drama stemming from it. I am tired of the clubs and the people who would claim yet not sit there and back up through spiritual seeking and knowledge. This is the scene. Club and bullshit in many a state. WHY?! I wonder sometimes whether this experiment has all but failed in the few who would be lowly in the community. Those who would stay underground? The Original? They stay there because they wish not be publicized as FATHER TODD would have them be. They wish not deal with you drama mongers out there whio wish naught but bullshit to come around and disturb all of OUR peace. It is pathetic *spits on the ground*. Why do we fight amongst ourselves? We have so many others to fight and argue with. Fuck it I say. Lets all come together. Those of us who actually wish to learn and seek. Seek within. Seek the TRUE Elders who hide. And look to gain the knowledge we all wish to find. You may continue causing the drama but without the feed to the fire where will it go. Merticus, I know you sit here and ignore it or ask that anymore drama we push away from the topics at hand but come the FUCK on now. There is too much leniency. There is too much of the mundane. We seek balance yet we seek the mundane gains and dramas MORE. Those who wish to learn first and foremost suffer from the state of the community. THIS is why the community both online and in the physical declines. THIS is why i seek to break away and create MY own. I don't get it. 

The days for the beat down so to say of those who break the "LAWS" has passed! SO why do those discontent hide away? Because as MUNDANE living has come they know no other way.  I hope everyone finds their paths and the knowledge they seek. I hope all those who read this and say YEAH I WANT TO LEARN actually look withing. Book learning is bullshit. Ha! The Strigoi Vii book, The LIBER books of all things, and those many books of simplicity included. I wonder where would we be if we all sought only without. Anyway I am done with my rant and rave. Dark blessings to all and most of all to those who would continue their charade and draw the negative from those who would do good to the community and those who wish to learn. Focus not on the physical fully but balance it. Combine it. Create your own personality. Your own PERCEPTION of life and learning and stick true to it. FUCK ALL ELSE.

Those who dont like this feel free to bash but I honestly wont feed into it. Though that energy is well worth enjoying. Those who do like this and would move freely to their own tempo. Their own knowledge seeking and mundane life permitting desire BRAVO!

Taris.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on July 29, 2010, 01:09:34 am
I wonder. Is it all the elitism that pushes away those who seek? Is it those who would say nay you are wrong? Is it those who would bicker and bitch about anything and everything anyone would say or believe?


There is too much drama and bullshit in the scene both physical and electronical to really stress being apart of it alot may think. I have dealt with it since 15 and will continue to as I contact those both on here and in rl or real life. All i have to say is it is fucking stupid. I am going to be my blunt self and put it all out as I am sick of it. For the past 7 years I have been part of the community both in the physical and the electronic I wonder.

Is this what those who started the experiment would expect? Lol I am sure they expected some but to this extent? We are all US, We all feed, cause drama to feed, and some of us hide in the shadows watching and waiting. I personally wonder when people will get tired of the drama, name saying, finger pointing, and random other BULLSHIT and move onto the topic at hand. The SPIRITUALITY. We sit here and complain about people and wonder why they are how they are. THIS IS MUNDANE BULLSHIT. Why do we look without when within is a wealth of information? Why do we feed the dramas if not to feed from the energy invoked. The poking and proding of matters far past? DRAMA. The asking of things which would be uncourteous? AGAIN DRAMA.

Does the whole of the scene feed on this?

I personally sought the elders for knowledge and found none. I sought the forums also for this and found little. I sought myself for this and found MUCH. Why do we all worry about the BULLSHIT that is numbers? STATUS. Those to look up to us and say "WOW, they've been in for 3 years they must know what the fuck they are talking about" Sorry but i met those in for 10 and didnt know shit but the clubs and how many different types of DRUGS will get them fucked up. I have met those who have said initially the SANGUINARIUM was naught but for drugs. That person sadly has passed =/ but I continue. If we set aside our differences and the BULLSHIT coming from that then we would all gain. We would all learn and grow. I am tired of the hierarchical systems and the drama stemming from it. I am tired of the clubs and the people who would claim yet not sit there and back up through spiritual seeking and knowledge. This is the scene. Club and bullshit in many a state. WHY?! I wonder sometimes whether this experiment has all but failed in the few who would be lowly in the community. Those who would stay underground? The Original? They stay there because they wish not be publicized as FATHER TODD would have them be. They wish not deal with you drama mongers out there whio wish naught but bullshit to come around and disturb all of OUR peace. It is pathetic *spits on the ground*. Why do we fight amongst ourselves? We have so many others to fight and argue with. Fuck it I say. Lets all come together. Those of us who actually wish to learn and seek. Seek within. Seek the TRUE Elders who hide. And look to gain the knowledge we all wish to find. You may continue causing the drama but without the feed to the fire where will it go. Merticus, I know you sit here and ignore it or ask that anymore drama we push away from the topics at hand but come the FUCK on now. There is too much leniency. There is too much of the mundane. We seek balance yet we seek the mundane gains and dramas MORE. Those who wish to learn first and foremost suffer from the state of the community. THIS is why the community both online and in the physical declines. THIS is why i seek to break away and create MY own. I don't get it. 

The days for the beat down so to say of those who break the "LAWS" has passed! SO why do those discontent hide away? Because as MUNDANE living has come they know no other way.  I hope everyone finds their paths and the knowledge they seek. I hope all those who read this and say YEAH I WANT TO LEARN actually look withing. Book learning is bullshit. Ha! The Strigoi Vii book, The LIBER books of all things, and those many books of simplicity included. I wonder where would we be if we all sought only without. Anyway I am done with my rant and rave. Dark blessings to all and most of all to those who would continue their charade and draw the negative from those who would do good to the community and those who wish to learn. Focus not on the physical fully but balance it. Combine it. Create your own personality. Your own PERCEPTION of life and learning and stick true to it. FUCK ALL ELSE.

Those who dont like this feel free to bash but I honestly wont feed into it. Though that energy is well worth enjoying. Those who do like this and would move freely to their own tempo. Their own knowledge seeking and mundane life permitting desire BRAVO!

Taris.



*Standing Ovation*

VERY well done.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Taris on July 29, 2010, 01:34:00 am
Thank you Ive had my share of drama and thus refrain from publicly attending the oh so common "get togethers".


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on July 30, 2010, 12:40:41 pm
I maintain that in order to find out why there might be a decline in the OVC, one has to look for something that has changed, not something that has been going on for 30 years.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: pinkearthling19 on July 30, 2010, 01:25:39 pm
Taris , concise and to the point.
Kudos. As to whether elitism and anonimity are required in the vampire community is a matter of personal opinion and individual needs. They have their use, as well as their abuse. It may all be just a matter of how much we wish to expose ourselves-- or let the world know about our lifestyles, our groups of friends, the places we frequent. With animosity some may respond, but the internet is becoming less and less private. I shan't go on this whole rant about the importance of opening up and facing the apparent  'dangers' of a more public life...because we are aware of this.  It is no longer about a persecution, but about moving and changing with the times. The scene of clubs and dark alleys is alluring, exciting and riveting in more than one way...and we keep this lifestyle or whichever lifestyle separated from  our nine to five tedious job... but for how long exactly?More diversity is leaking into our seemingly uniform 'community' or milieu...which brings more demands, new ideas and new outlooks to reconcile our secrecy with how the world sees us.

If we cannot connect or network, tread new and different paths that may bring us to similar individuals or even new narratives, what is there to do to perpetuate our archetype? ...to perpetuate our humanity...? It is easy to mistrust and to not let anyone in whom we regard as a possible threat to our status quo. Guess what...there is no status to maintain. Everything crumbles down and we are left with our mere shadow of an identity if we cling on too hard.  Our Houses/clubs/temples or whatever are temporary and so is the barrier that keeps us divided from other groups. Doubt and change are the only constants in this world. So why not make the trip worthwhile. I think our leaders(or rather the public figures of our community) are out-dated... our resources are faltering, and we may resort now to more wide-reaching means to communitcate and get the word out. I would not equate this to a civil rights movement, but a cultural revolution... a standing up, a uniting of us. All of us. Not mere bollocks, not mere meet ups, but full on movements of getting ourselves outside the crevices we have inhabited for so long, back in the mind, the myth and the legend. Out into the light, literally. Just saying. feel free to correct me or dissent.

-moi


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: sandmanbrian777 on July 30, 2010, 01:51:00 pm
In analyzing Growth and Decline patterns I believe we need to examine
the difference between "Quantitative and Qualitative " change.
We have been informed there is a change.  But lets qualify it.

I remember a saying about statistics: 
there are lies,
there are Damn lies,
and there are Statistics...

Take a look at other marginalized groups and see what
the available literature states
about their ups and downs. 
It seems a big thing is being made out of what?
Is it a trend,a pattern, or a cycle?
Can the motaivating factor(s) be boiled down and purified to provide an answer?
If so can the same Stat's be used to carve the answer another contradictory way?

There are many factors on both sides of the anonymity equation. 
The answers relate to basic Political Science under the subdivision of
Social Politics.  If you choose either then at least know the delimitations.
Safety and Security are prime considerations.
The basic Tradecraft has been used for centuries

Trilliums Halo .............................................V""V....
****************************************************************

 



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: sphynxcatvp on July 30, 2010, 03:52:31 pm
Quote
Adevarat Singe wrote:
...have seen a lot of egotism within the "elders" of the community (Merticus excluded from statement). They are tired and burnt out according to their own words, but reluctant to "pass the torch" so that others may educate. I think its a power trip for some of them. God forbid one has been active locally in the community for 2 decades. If one hasn't been involved "online" for at least 10 years or runs their own website,or written a book than surely that person cannot be an elder....

I've gotten the "If you aren't active locally, then you aren't real" attitude from people, amusingly enough. :)

Quote
RKCoon wrote:
...Just because the truth isnt particularly palatable to some members in the communities, does not make it any less true....

Words of wisdom that I wish more would realize.... :)

Quote
MyBree wrote:
That's another problem. Employers ARE looking at aliases now days and somehow finding them. They are getting more into your personal life than ever before. With the internet becoming more complex they somehow can find it now. I just lost a job offer because they SOMEHOW found my nick and matched it with my real name. (I think it might be my Myspace page cause its got my pic and all but not sure. Doesn't have my real name in the account) They did a google search for "Myrbree" my site, this forum, and other OVC forums I am one showed in the results and when I was called in for an interview they told me they could not take me because "You are too involved in what we consider lifestyle choices that are not the norm and therefore not suitable to work here."...

THIS is the primary reason I am as private as I am about my mundane life. I got enough problems from being generally weird, opinionated, and not giving a s*** about politics, I CERTAINLY don't need to add vampirism to the mix in the eyes of a potential employer, heh! :)

Quote
SangSavvy wrote:
...My personal opinion is that the "freedom of speech" line tends to be used as a sheld when folks don't like to keep things in context.  That is sort of like a 12-year-old saying "its a free country".  What about being a decent human being?  I'm not saying freedom of speech is a bad thing, I'm saying, keep it in context, keep it in balance.  There is a line between practicing freedom of speech, and taking advantage of it to further ones own merits, irrationale, baised indulgences, and greed....

*Standing ovation* Well said!

Quote
Sanguinarius wrote:
...Giselle wrote, "So what if there is a decline. Is not going to ever completely dissappear. THE ones left standing are the real deal."  That sums up my belief pretty darned well....

I'll third that! :)

Quote
Demzon wrote:
"...Fifth, lets get some science involved. I should have put that one first, but it fits better as most of the rest needs some attention more quickly...."

Science is exactly the approach I'm taking with my site this year - I'm writing and adding articles of a more medical nature so that people have the opportunity to determine whether some of their issues are due to problems that need real medical attention. What prompted this is seeing some of the AVA published survey results, and knowing that some of the ailments can be mitigated or eliminated with proper understanding...and knowing that not everyone can read medical materials without their eyes glazing over. Someone needs to put it in simpler speech, might as well be me since I have the time...

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WingedWolf wrote:
...I love True Blood.  Seriously.  I read all the books before they turned them into a tv show, and they're doing a phenomenal job with it.  Don't knock the fiction.  It's fun.  We love it.  (You know you do)....

I read several of the books and did enjoy them (thought they ARE a bit slow going at times.) I really *can't* stand the series, it highlights the "bimbo" and "idiot" factor to a much larger degree than I remember in the books. That may be due to "teh wonder of telly-vision" but it's still much argh on my part, since I was looking forward to seeing what they would do. :)

Now the advertising images I've seen? THOSE are serious win! They are some of the funniest advertising I've seen for a vampire show EVAH and I actually collect the images I happen to cruise by. "Cup of Joe" comes to mind...*grins* Maybe the advertisers need to have a larger hand in the show production? Heh! It could make things interesting at least... *grins*

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Winged Wolf wrote:
...Essentially this:  Folks, stop pretending you know what real vampirism is, what causes it, and what traits all real vampires have.  Vampirism is not all one thing.  What may be true for you will not be true for all vampires.  You can explore and quantify and find out as much as you like about a TYPE of vampirism, but you do not have that information about all types, and if you pretend that you do, you are absolutely wrong....

THANK YOU! Hear, hear, and very true! :)

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WingedWolf wrote:
...I maintain that in order to find out why there might be a decline in the OVC, one has to look for something that has changed, not something that has been going on for 30 years....

1) The internet has become more accessible to the masses
2) Vampires have become more popular in the media
3) Free forums and free websites make it MUCH easier for someone to set up an online presence
4) Cheaper domain registration means lots more people can have a website on their own domain
5) Social networking ("facecrack", twitter, etc.) is more popular these days

But don't forget other factors, I was reminded of these myself recently...

6) We've been in a recession for quite some time
7) Conservative/religious people in government have set policy for 8 successive years
8) We're in a VERY poor job market - people can't find the same jobs like they used to have
9) (Mundane) economy and job markets are shifting - for example, some people are making a go at running their own business, sometimes out of desperation for not finding a paying job. Incomes are definitely not what they used to be.

It's hard for some people to maintain an active online presence when they have RL matters to take care of, like making sure their finances allow them to keep a head above water. Some people overextended themselves (their fault more than anything else) and have to work 2 or 3 jobs in order to pay for it all. This isn't something that affects the OVC more than other non-OVC areas, but affects everyone equally.

Yes, I am speaking in generalities - not everyone's situation will be the same, and I'm not pretending to understand why people have dropped off the 'net, for all intents and purposes. I am, however, bringing forth a few additional points that I was reminded off recently myself.



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: the pink lady on July 30, 2010, 03:56:05 pm
Did someone spin this topic into its own thread? Heard no other mention of it.

I went away for a good five years and it's all the same names, places, and arguments. I try to motion that we can make a change, and I get a bunch of 'it's to hard,' and 'I'm obfuscating my real persona with a super secret pseudonym.'

I took a break from being a moderator twice, once in 2001-2003 ish and another in 2005-2007. Things don't really change. As for the super-secret name, I'm getting to the point where I'm about ready to go "ta-da, here I am!" for real. But not quite; I belong to employee action/activism committee as part of my job and I've heard some ominous noises from HR and upper management about social networking sites and "screening" employees. Coming out at this point may be mistaken for some recent fad...or not.
 
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First; anyone with enough free time can track down who any of you are anytime. If they have money they can do it faster; quit worrying about if someone has your name and assume that they already do. You are not that important, none of you, not even me; hell I'm likely less important than most.

I'm more concerned about how my employer will handle my bloodsucking more than any other entity, to be quite honest. :P I'm a practicing Jew and a bisexual in the conservative South--not really worried about how the normals will or won't cope with me.

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Second; a vampire ball with real vampires; great idea, now do it. Blood drive on Halloween; great idea, get it set up. Saying things does not get them done, nor does hoping that someone else will; if you want to see it done start off and try to get other involved. Most importantly: carry through.

After attending Twilight III, folks like Eric Bloodstorm inspired me to start a community in my podunk town. People really don't show up for it. There's even a competing (!) group in my town who believes that there isn't an organized group here. I've tried to get in touch with that person...and nothing. I'm starting to believe that, unless you live in a metropolitan area or know enough people in your community, there's no such thing as an offline community. I'm rather disappointed. I'd love to live closer to Washington DC or even Hotlanta just to be around other people even vaguely like me.

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Third; in the US there is a Department of Labor and DoL/Dept. of Employment for individual states. If you feel that an employer over extended it's investigation; ask. Both at the federal and state level there are people who's job it is to make sure that people do not over step their limitations under the law.

If I was fired for drinking blood (which, IIRC, is considered reckless endangerment under my state's law), I don't know if I could afford the legal battle. What if there's negative press? I have family members who work for the same umbrella employer to consider. It's kinda funny that I'm guaranteed to keep my job and benefits regardless of my religion or sexual orientation...but my personal practices may cause me to lose it.

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Fourth, remember what you knew when you first walked in before typing to the new person with lots of dumb questions. That come down to a good life skill though and the base tenant of most religions that I state so succinctly as "don't be an asshole."

Like I said before, I'm willing to do whatever it takes for someone new and willing to learn. But that's not always the case. In another area of my life, there's a raging debate concerning access to information: people don't want to learn how to fish for themselves, but are willing to do expensive and ridiculous things to make the fish come to them, fully cooked and ready to eat. This applies to the OVC. People don't like the whole "ultimate understanding comes from within" concept: they want to holler cryptic messages to the darkness, hoping for that equally cryptic "elder" to hear their thin cry, wake from slumber, and give them every answer they need. Or they want "blood and energy drinking for dummies" and don't understand that most practicing bloodsuckers don't post how-to manuals on the Internet. (How did I learn what little blood drawing I know? A few weeks with a patient person three years ago, and that was after 7-8 years of waiting.)

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Fifth, lets get some science involved. I should have put that one first, but it fits better as most of the rest needs some attention more quickly.

It all boils down to being taken seriously, and surveys and watchgroups have done a good job paving the way. We can only build on that.

I've been periodically writing stuff on Jews and vampires, and I'm finally at the stage where I want to talk to others about vampirism in general. It was then I realized that I haven't met too many people face-to-face, including most of my fellow moderators. To this end, I'm planning on traveling through the rest of this year until next summer. Then again, in this economy, I can afford to do such loony things. :P


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on July 31, 2010, 12:10:36 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 31, 2010, 01:14:10 am
Ok... seems that new stuff is coming up more frequently, and I just got back from a few days in the mountains; let's see how for I get:

Belfazzar: I could care less if a person wants to use a picture of a poodle in a tutu as long as they are not just making crap up to get attention. The anonymity that most are talking about on the internet that I see is that assumption that if they make some persona and keep the real person and the persona separate that no one will ever find out who they are. This is not the case as I explained.
I stated before on the Les Vamperis list that Hybrid never went away that I saw, and is in fact even used here on AVA forums, it's only you and your group that shuns it so bad.
Now, to your groups definition; I don't like it. It is metaphysical jargon mixed with religion; neither which are present to find a fact. We need less oogy boogy and more reality if we are ever going to figure out what is happening. I got told a good one the other day by the nice lady that runs the store that sells my jewelry; was something like 'we don't have to believe in the Chocolate Muffin Goddess, but we will respect Her if that's what you believe in; now how do we prey to or honor the Chocolate Muffin Goddess?' She deals with religion, and many different kinds, so she has to respect every wild idea coming in. This is not a religion; it is a life. (Note not a lifestyle, but a life) lets try filling the gapeing holes with information based on sound reasoning rather than fluff.

Taris: Good bit of drama; but so much has been said before, and in a shorter span, and it is never listened to. I do hope it gets noticed, if even by one, this time; but I doubt it will.

RK: Yes, there is no growth; and seemingly no want of growth. That leads me to...

WingedWolf: Part of the problem, as I have said before time and again in various ways, that there is no change. How long will a person stay to say the same thing again, and be told to stick to the same discussions? When does it all just become a self-written script?
Research starts with no money. Thats the way it works. You take an idea that no one cares about but means something to you and start learning all you can about it and documenting everything. Eventually things start to fall in to place for what is going on and you can write a unifying hypothesis. Then you get others involved with that hypothesis to test how sound it is; modify as needed at this point. At some point someone takes notice and is willing to fund better bigger research. After enough better bigger research you should come to a good theory. Tada! Basic science in a nutshell.

NyteMuse: It is much better than what has been done, and you are showing that you do not get statistics. There is no way to ever get a full survey done of any group; that is the reason for Margin of Error. This is a factor, usually estimated based on other numbers that are never right but close, of how much a number could change if everyone was asked. For example; 21% +/-2 means that it could be anywhere from 19-23%. So no, the VEWRS/AVEWRS is not definitive in the strictest definition; but it is by statistical standards. As said on the site, "within negligible margins of error or difference on the whole for the questions represented," meaning that it is less than +/-5%. All of that is assuming if I remember right from middle school math class. By the way smoking causes cancer 34% of the time; +/-15%.

Pink Lady: No, I've just been writing concise responses to people who have no will to defend their positions after they get done reading or believe that they can not do so with out making personal attack it would seem; in other words, they are ignoring me.
Your concerns about corporations prying deeper in to places they have no business is fairly common. I have no idea what is taking the ACLU so long to get involved as they are seemingly hunting down evidence to warrant firing some one because they feel like it.
I would love to see a breakdown of laws by state regarding consumption of human blood. The only thing I can ever find in the Federal laws is U "SC Title 21 C.F.R. ß 640.4   Collection of the blood. "(a) Supervision. Blood shall be drawn from the donor by a qualified physician or under his supervision by assistants trained in the procedure. (&c.)" Making it, as you said, endangerment and possibly practicing medicine with out a licensee.
If one is going to build on a foundation they should start before it is weathered back to sand. I'm one person with no time, so I push. Not many seem interested in getting to facts relying instead on what has become a religion based around an energies and ritual.
If you come by the Denver area, give me a heads up; I would be glad to come out to meet you.

I'll put in a quote I came across that has been serving me well recently; "If the person you are talking to doesn't appear to be listening, be patient. It may simply be that he has a small piece of fluff in his ear." Winnie the Pooh


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on July 31, 2010, 02:45:29 am
I wonder. Is it all the elitism that pushes away those who seek? Is it those who would say nay you are wrong? Is it those who would bicker and bitch about anything and everything anyone would say or believe?


There is too much drama and bullshit in the scene both physical and electronical to really stress being apart of it alot may think. I have dealt with it since 15 and will continue to as I contact those both on here and in rl or real life. All i have to say is it is fucking stupid. I am going to be my blunt self and put it all out as I am sick of it. For the past 7 years I have been part of the community both in the physical and the electronic I wonder.

Is this what those who started the experiment would expect? Lol I am sure they expected some but to this extent? We are all US, We all feed, cause drama to feed, and some of us hide in the shadows watching and waiting. I personally wonder when people will get tired of the drama, name saying, finger pointing, and random other BULLSHIT and move onto the topic at hand. The SPIRITUALITY. We sit here and complain about people and wonder why they are how they are. THIS IS MUNDANE BULLSHIT. Why do we look without when within is a wealth of information? Why do we feed the dramas if not to feed from the energy invoked. The poking and proding of matters far past? DRAMA. The asking of things which would be uncourteous? AGAIN DRAMA.

Does the whole of the scene feed on this?

I personally sought the elders for knowledge and found none. I sought the forums also for this and found little. I sought myself for this and found MUCH. Why do we all worry about the BULLSHIT that is numbers? STATUS. Those to look up to us and say "WOW, they've been in for 3 years they must know what the fuck they are talking about" Sorry but i met those in for 10 and didnt know shit but the clubs and how many different types of DRUGS will get them fucked up. I have met those who have said initially the SANGUINARIUM was naught but for drugs. That person sadly has passed =/ but I continue. If we set aside our differences and the BULLSHIT coming from that then we would all gain. We would all learn and grow. I am tired of the hierarchical systems and the drama stemming from it. I am tired of the clubs and the people who would claim yet not sit there and back up through spiritual seeking and knowledge. This is the scene. Club and bullshit in many a state. WHY?! I wonder sometimes whether this experiment has all but failed in the few who would be lowly in the community. Those who would stay underground? The Original? They stay there because they wish not be publicized as FATHER TODD would have them be. They wish not deal with you drama mongers out there whio wish naught but bullshit to come around and disturb all of OUR peace. It is pathetic *spits on the ground*. Why do we fight amongst ourselves? We have so many others to fight and argue with. Fuck it I say. Lets all come together. Those of us who actually wish to learn and seek. Seek within. Seek the TRUE Elders who hide. And look to gain the knowledge we all wish to find. You may continue causing the drama but without the feed to the fire where will it go. Merticus, I know you sit here and ignore it or ask that anymore drama we push away from the topics at hand but come the FUCK on now. There is too much leniency. There is too much of the mundane. We seek balance yet we seek the mundane gains and dramas MORE. Those who wish to learn first and foremost suffer from the state of the community. THIS is why the community both online and in the physical declines. THIS is why i seek to break away and create MY own. I don't get it. 

The days for the beat down so to say of those who break the "LAWS" has passed! SO why do those discontent hide away? Because as MUNDANE living has come they know no other way.  I hope everyone finds their paths and the knowledge they seek. I hope all those who read this and say YEAH I WANT TO LEARN actually look withing. Book learning is bullshit. Ha! The Strigoi Vii book, The LIBER books of all things, and those many books of simplicity included. I wonder where would we be if we all sought only without. Anyway I am done with my rant and rave. Dark blessings to all and most of all to those who would continue their charade and draw the negative from those who would do good to the community and those who wish to learn. Focus not on the physical fully but balance it. Combine it. Create your own personality. Your own PERCEPTION of life and learning and stick true to it. FUCK ALL ELSE.

Those who dont like this feel free to bash but I honestly wont feed into it. Though that energy is well worth enjoying. Those who do like this and would move freely to their own tempo. Their own knowledge seeking and mundane life permitting desire BRAVO!

Taris.
I'm lost for words.... Except , well said tarvis!
You hit every point to the letter ! It was about time the crap hit the fan....lmao... Cheers !


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Taris on July 31, 2010, 03:12:03 am
Sadly enough Demzon too many people are only interested in what they say or think to open their minds to the possibilities of others having some semblance of intellect and spiritual knowledge. A lot of what was once open to those of many paths is slowly becoming a path for those who will choose the path of those around them in hopes of gaining some sense of the  W's. Who, what, when, where, why.

 Everyone seeks answers to their questions and has different views and perceptions sadly enough too few open their minds and their eyes to what lay before them. The newly awakened and the practiced for years both bring a lot of new ideas and great points to the table. I don't stop learning and I sure as hell don't shun the thoughts of those I would help guide along their way. I have learned so much simply from speaking with those who have come to me and their new ideas about what is and isn't and their perceptions. It gives you a chance to explore new angles as normally the mind gets held up in the typical thinking patterns you've grown accustomed to. But again don't want to ramble on about perceptions and the depressing facts about some set ways and ways of thinking. Dark Blessings.

Thank you for the encouragement. I just want to stir some free thinkers honestly. Not trouble or hell. I would just like to see people seeking spirituality in their own ways shapes and forms and coming together to share gathered perceptions and thoughts on said spirituality. I never TEACH I simply guide. Help those lacking or seeking a path find it so to say. Dark Blessings.

Taris


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: LadyRochelle on July 31, 2010, 03:43:19 am
I am not sure if anyone on here is familiar with this disease, but in order to find out of you have it, they take MANY viles of blood to test for everything in existance. Yeah, I was not doing well after that doctor visit for sure. They then wait for all of the results to come in and if you are negative on other diseases and other things are not really off in the tests, which anemia was off on mine but would not account for my symptoms...the medical profession will tag you with Fibromyalgia. Basically you are clear on all tests so, you have this disease. One they still do not fully comprehend what all the symptoms are and such. There is no way to directly test for it. It is more test for everything else and if you are left with nothing, then that is what it is. So if a doctor of medicine can't find nothing on tests run to make this assessment, then load me down with medications to ease the full body pains, why are we worried about scientific proof? They have tried to gather information to find out more about it and they THINK it might be genetically passed. From what information I have gotten, it always includes "Not much is known about this disease and scientists and doctors are working hard to learn more about it".

True, but there is a definition to fibromyalgia too.  This is from fibromyalgia-symptoms.org

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To meet the diagnostic criteria, patients must have:
 
Widespread pain in all four quadrants of their body for a minimum of three months. Pain is considered widespread when all of the following are present:
 
 
Pain in the left side of the body
Pain in the right side of the body
Pain above the waist
Pain below the waist
Pain in the neck, front of your chest, mid-back, or low back
 
 
At least 11 of the 18 specified tender points of fibromyalgia (see diagram below). These are areas of pain on touch but without signs of redness, swelling or heat in the surrounding joints or muscles. For a tender point to be considered "positive" you must feel pain when someone pushes with their finger with an approximate force of 4kg (roughly the amount of pressure needed to change the colour of the skin). Some health care providers may use an instrument called an algometer during the examination of the patient to ensure that only a 4kg load is being placed.

I'm just reading for now.  I'm tired.  I think tomorrow I'll be able to make some input.  Thanks everyone, great to be here with you.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on July 31, 2010, 09:02:17 am
Demzon, you said in regards to Belfazaar's group's definition of vampirism: "We need less oogy boogy and more reality if we are ever going to figure out what is happening."

As far as the definition he posted is concerned, I feel it is pretty accurate, because I do not view energetic implications as non-reality.  There is in fact a lot of proof of energetic transference in quantum theory.  I also think about the fact that Belfazaar stated he has been invested in the heart of his vampiric community for almost 30 years, on a continuous basis, implies that the discussion regarding this definition is so widely accepted by the group he is a part of is the result of the massive amounts of conversation and discussion that has most likely transpired to manifest such a definition.  I think it's simply important to keep in mind, that's all. 

As far as anyone ever actually figuring things out to a point of conclusion, I'm really at the point where I'm feeling that overall, it's an impossibility.  Everything is able to be "refuted" and "speculated" and "redefined" it seems.  Perhaps it would be better to work towards having some sort of guidelines to work with the fluid-like natures of the mind body and spirit, rather than something definitive. 

This may sound sort of odd, but I keep having this vision in my mind of a memory I had as a small child while I've read some of the things here, and I apologize in advance if the nostalgia makes anyone bored;  I was sitting in the backseat of my families car, waiting with my father for my mother to come out of the store.  The wind was blowing, and it was raining harder and harder.  My father looked at a nearby cord that held the stoplights.  He remarked, "Do you see how that cord is a cord and not a metal rod? Why do you think that is?"  I didn't really know.  When I thought about it, I assumed it would be better to have a solid metal rod.  He replied, "Because if it was a solid rod, and a storm blew through like it is now, the rod would snap.  The cord allows slack, which prevents the stoplights from being smashed to the ground." 

I think I'll just allow that to be a sort of ambient implication of the feelings I just can't seem to put into words.  Sorry if that makes some folks upset because it's not concrete... I don't really feel everything about life is concrete...nor do I think it's entirely ambient either.  As I've stated, I think balance is important. 



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on July 31, 2010, 10:26:42 am
Obviously I need to clarify a bit. I'm not saying that there is not the possibility that there is some type of energy that is needed; just that there is no way to test for it, and unless you make what ever equivalent of a PKE meter than there is no way to present any of that to the scientific community. This is a fight that I evened up giving up long ago because of people getting in to semantics; I guess I'm back at it because I believe something too. Some of you believe in energies and aliens, I believe that everything can be explained given enough study and time by mundane forces. Even the Chinese explanation of various types of Chi energy, when applying the actual definitions rather that the half understood spiritual crap, is understandable and predictable by science. Holding fast to ideas, no mater how long they are held, and never challenging them is just another type of ignorance. Remember, the world was flat and the sun orbited the earth at different times, and both were knows to be true for multiple generations.
So simply, I don't care what people want to believe; I want to know what the truth is behind the veil of mysticism.

As for implications of "discussion regarding this definition is so widely accepted by the group he is a part of is the result of the massive amounts of conversation and discussion that has most likely transpired to manifest such a definition," this is misapplied. Just because some one that runs a group has a definition for something says nothing to discussion; especially in a community where those with differing ideas have been shouted out rather than conversed with. There has been many times before where I have presented my ideas in a "free open discussion" to find that it was truly a tyrannical mob rule environment. As best stated by Jayne on Firefly, "You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get ta beat ya with until ya acknowledge who's in ruddin' command."


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Mikhiel Karten on July 31, 2010, 10:11:59 pm
I think that as in any group or community that there will be some who are elitists. Some believe it their right by just who they are that they are better than anyone else. With others, they know that they are, from what they have done, accomplish in their life. Then others they know for what they have sacrificed for the greater good of all others. So do I think that its a bad or a good thing, I dont think that it really matter one way or another. People will be who they are, good or ill. It is only when they are so arrogant that they bring negitive attention to that group or community. Im sure that We know somone that fits that bill. Then that single person should be either excluded or ostrisized. Let then hang themselves with their own rope. Dark Blessings My Friends.

Sincerely Yours, Mikhiel Karten


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on August 01, 2010, 01:18:22 pm
Ah, we are getting into some interesting meat now...

Where is the line between Elitism and wisdom?

Some of us, have experience to share.  That experience lends to some perspectives which are certainly useful.  That experience, for example, lends to the ability to dicern between fiction/fantasy and plausible events.

For example... going back to the light sensitivity debate (chose becasue its a good example).  Someone tells me that they are a vampire because they are uncomfortable going into the sun, and that this in itself is enough to show they are not human when coupled with their pale skin.  My experience tells me, that I know vamps, both pranic and sang, who have no problem with the sun whatsoever.  I know vamps of varying races.  Further, my experience tells me every vampire I have met to date is indeed human biologically.  I propose that their light sensitivity may not be a indicator of vampirism, but rather a induced reaction brought on by avoiding sunlight over the years.

Because I argue a point based on logic and experience, am I being elite?  I would say no.  Skeptical, yes.  I am saying I have contradictory experience to the proposed theory and need more proof than anecdotal to warrant changing my perspective.

Converse situation.  Say someone says they are a vampire.  I tell them they are full of it because they are not part of my personal house, nor do they trace back to anyone in that house.   I claim my house is the only one with real vampires and all others are pretenders.

This, would make me elite.

I think, one has to be very aware that the term 'elite' is a political one.  It can be used or misused.  Sometimes, people get frusterated at their standing, and use the term to attack others in higher positions, I would think.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Taris on August 01, 2010, 01:37:12 pm
Some good points Pain. I think the term is political but there are those who would draw the term into a spiritual aspect as well. Those who would claim that the spirituality one has come to see through their own eyes and perspectives are the one way to view things. Then there are those that would claim that another is not properly learning on their spiritual paths because they havent done it their way. Just woke up so not going on my whole 5 para commenting XD. Just some thoughts.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on August 01, 2010, 02:11:56 pm
No, that's not elitist.  If sun sensitivity is all they're complaining about, that alone is CERTAINLY not enough to indicate vampirism.  Sun sensitivity can have many different causes.  (However, it wouldn't be accurate to claim that vampirism is never one of them).

Elitist is more along the lines of proclaiming how vampires are the next evolutionary step, a superior, more evolved form of human.  Yes, I have in fact seen that suggested, lol.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 01, 2010, 05:30:46 pm
Belfazaar, 

So, with all due respect Belfazaar, if you are asking someone like me with my past experience to "just pm me, its cool", I cannot trust that.  Unfortunately, there are so many people like what I have described not only in the vampiric community, but everywhere, that those people ruin it for the good ones. 


Those who think they know another from a conversation or two have yet to meet the real person.  I takes more than a once or twice ordeal for me to begin to trust another member of the community.  I've had my share of burns, up to and including recent ones with a House that is no longer a part of NOVA, due to the outright lies and manipulations of people OUTSIDE our local community.

The primary difference is my own stubborn (some my call disastrously stupid) habit of not giving up on something I truly care about or my ideals that are based on that.  Everyone can't live as I do. I know this.  But this works for me on so many levels, up to and including my health issues, spiritual path and love of life in general, that I think I would be a fool to change anything... Well maybe my hair color since a bit more gray is coming in... I'm not ready for it just yet, but it is that silver color that I adore on others...  I'm just not ready for it on me yet, though it is coming in quite nicely...

Example. One friend and I spoke online for almost 10 years before I got a private message with a picture stating 'this is what I look like'...  I don't expect things to happen over night nor instantly... This is NOT Harry Potter, this is real life...  Trust, for some, takes time to build... For me, I trust you until you give me reason NOT to trust you.  This has been the way I've been since I was a child and if physical, emotional and spiritual and more...

For some people, however, trust takes time.  I understand, acknowledge and accept this.  I still hold out the hand of friendship in hope...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on August 01, 2010, 05:51:22 pm
Personally, I am less than eager to trust someone who has chosen to out themselves.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Darklilone on August 01, 2010, 06:19:54 pm
I agree with Paindancer's post.
Example. One friend and I spoke online for almost 10 years before I got a private message with a picture stating 'this is what I look like'...  I don't expect things to happen over night nor instantly... This is NOT Harry Potter, this is real life...  Trust, for some, takes time to build... For me, I trust you until you give me reason NOT to trust you.  This has been the way I've been since I was a child and if physical, emotional and spiritual and more...

For some people, however, trust takes time.  I understand, acknowledge and accept this.  I still hold out the hand of friendship in hope...
I'm glad you can see it in this way. I'm much in the same way in that i trust or, respect, until given a reason not to.. however i still prefer to take caution. "better safe then sorry" is how i try to live, then again, all in moderation i do stumble into one extreme or the other from time to time, no one's perfect.

Personally, I am less than eager to trust someone who has chosen to out themselves.

I can also understand your side, RK.
While i personally, in some ways, enjoy some of those who 'out themselves'. for example, those on the news or who have done interviews.. i enjoy watching or listening, whether or not i agree with every belief they have, or how they go about living their lives, it's something that i couldn't do (vampire or not). So i respect them in that sense, but also, it gives me a face, or a voice that i can sort of look up to..
Sort of solidifys or makes the community a bit more tangible for me.. and believable.
Trust me, there are plenty of individuals that i didn't agree with or even like, but they still have made an attempt and they are/were only using what they know and being who they are (at least, one would hope).

At the same time, some individuals, i might question. What purpose do they truely have in doing this? are they in it for themselves, or truely to better the community?
If they can 'out' themselves, would they be willing to'out' others? While i don't think one would out another, there are concerns.
When judging individuals, it's not so much trust i guess, as i don't expect to meet any of them any time soon, if ever, it's more.. how do they present themselves? what information are they presenting? They are, purposely or not, representing the community, are they doing so in a way that i agree with or can approve of?

Everything has a good side and a bad, i tend to be a bit more trusting towards what i can percieve (in whatever way) though i still question it.. it becomes easier to believe in.
If someone is risking themselves, their lives,their personal reputation and claiming to do it for the community, i feel to an extent, that i can trust them a bit more. Sure, it's a greater risk for some than others, but if they're willing to take this risk (while i don't advise it), then there must be something in them that can be trusted.. because whatever their motives are, it's apparently worth the risk to them.
They're visable and audible, they are more real to me than text on a screen.. or someone hiding behind a mask or a in a dim-lit room. Though of course, i don't trust totally blindly.. i still question, but it's like there's a slight veil.. a layer of .. anonymity(?) that is lifted.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on August 01, 2010, 11:19:13 pm
Good questions, darklilone, but I find myself suspecting that most of those that out themselves do it for personal reasons, not for the 'benevolent gain of the community' - and I find it hard to believe the lip service from people like belanger *yes Im picking on her again, deal with it* who are selling books, going across the country (or more), and are sort of house hold names. Just doesnt fly so well with me.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on August 02, 2010, 03:06:55 am
Thanks for your response, Belfazaar, I really appreciate the clarification, and I agree with the points you made. 

Paindancer, your post was interesting.  I think when it comes to interaction on a basic level, it's not just what a person says, but also how they say it and why they say it.  The nature of a persons disposition when speaking or interacting tends to be the all-encompassing result of many different factors.  In your example of how you deduced your reasoning for responding to a person regarding the sunlight example, you looked at it from a very practical level, but I will also say that your response you stated was not elitist because the nature of your response was not degrading.  You were, as far as I know, showing mindfulness to *how* you would react to that sort of situation.

Dark, I think you made some really outstanding points in observance of how dynamic the situation is.  My personal addition to your points are, I think every interaction and situation with each individual is a case-by-case basis.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Darklilone on August 02, 2010, 05:10:40 am
Good questions, darklilone, but I find myself suspecting that most of those that out themselves do it for personal reasons, not for the 'benevolent gain of the community' - and I find it hard to believe the lip service from people like belanger *yes Im picking on her again, deal with it* who are selling books, going across the country (or more), and are sort of house hold names. Just doesnt fly so well with me.
Well you gotta make a living somehow, no? even still, how else do you expect others to listen or believe you if they see you as a total stranger. Personal gain or not, they have to be known eventually.. and if this is something they're truely dedicated to.. again, they need to support themselves and make a living somehow..

I think every interaction and situation with each individual is a case-by-case basis.
This is also true.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on August 02, 2010, 09:33:42 am
Just because someone is at the top doesn't validate or invalidate them.  There is probably good and bad aspects.  I dont agree with everything Ballinger says of course, but I do know that I found a great deal in life due to her work, including the kin and vamp communities.

One also needs to consider who the media supports.  I have been approached for several documentaries.  You would think a bald, musclebound, fetish performing vamp would be enough.. nope.. I am too normal.  I hold a job, I maintain a relationship, I sleep at night I dont wear black all the time.. etc etc.  There is no story.. no ratings... so they go to the drugged out chick who insists she is 500 years old and immune to any blood borne disease.





Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on August 02, 2010, 10:51:36 am
Good questions, darklilone, but I find myself suspecting that most of those that out themselves do it for personal reasons, not for the 'benevolent gain of the community' - and I find it hard to believe the lip service from people like belanger *yes Im picking on her again, deal with it* who are selling books, going across the country (or more), and are sort of house hold names. Just doesnt fly so well with me.
Well you gotta make a living somehow, no? even still, how else do you expect others to listen or believe you if they see you as a total stranger. Personal gain or not, they have to be known eventually.. and if this is something they're truely dedicated to.. again, they need to support themselves and make a living somehow..



Well, we call lawyers for the parasites THEY are, seems only fitting to extend that title to this lot, a good portion  of the public ones, at anyway.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Taris on August 02, 2010, 11:18:25 am
Just because someone is at the top doesn't validate or invalidate them.  There is probably good and bad aspects.  I dont agree with everything Ballinger says of course, but I do know that I found a great deal in life due to her work, including the kin and vamp communities.

One also needs to consider who the media supports.  I have been approached for several documentaries.  You would think a bald, musclebound, fetish performing vamp would be enough.. nope.. I am too normal.  I hold a job, I maintain a relationship, I sleep at night I dont wear black all the time.. etc etc.  There is no story.. no ratings... so they go to the drugged out chick who insists she is 500 years old and immune to any blood borne disease.

Lol but do we give that crazy drugged out chick a spot in the community? No we go out to say that we dont support her within the community and thus try to limit the sensationalism. Im glad there are stable parts of the community Pain.  They would do well to interview people like you over those like Sharkey and the others out there.

Also, I think because those who are at the top are there we criticize them more so. Its like stars, politicians, and others in public view and public office. We criticize ALL of their actions simply because they are a leader in the community.

Anyway too early for thinking so much lol

Taris


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Darklilone on August 02, 2010, 04:54:26 pm
Well, we call lawyers for the parasites THEY are, seems only fitting to extend that title to this lot, a good portion  of the public ones, at anyway.
I don't see them in similar ways. Lawyers, at times, i can actually sympathize for.
I witnessed a female lawyer defend a sex offender, despite her better and personal judgement. it gets hard.. it's part of the job, whether they like it or not.  someone's gotta do it, and if you dedicate yourself to a job, or something you enjoy, or a 'community' that you believe in, or at least claim to, it would seem a bit difficult to dedicate yourself to your own life at the same time. selfish or selfless, it still comes down to using their personal time and resources, they're bringing attention not only to themselves, but to all of us, as a whole (directly or indirectly) and though i don't believe there should exactly be a reward, i do understand what needs to be done in one's life.



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 02, 2010, 04:56:11 pm
Ok... seems that new stuff is coming up more frequently, and I just got back from a few days in the mountains; let's see how for I get:

Belfazzar: I could care less if a person wants to use a picture of a poodle in a tutu as long as they are not just making crap up to get attention. The anonymity that most are talking about on the internet that I see is that assumption that if they make some persona and keep the real person and the persona separate that no one will ever find out who they are. This is not the case as I explained.
I stated before on the Les Vamperis list that Hybrid never went away that I saw, and is in fact even used here on AVA forums, it's only you and your group that shuns it so bad.
Now, to your groups definition; I don't like it. It is metaphysical jargon mixed with religion; neither which are present to find a fact. We need less oogy boogy and more reality if we are ever going to figure out what is happening. I got told a good one the other day by the nice lady that runs the store that sells my jewelry; was something like 'we don't have to believe in the Chocolate Muffin Goddess, but we will respect Her if that's what you believe in; now how do we prey to or honor the Chocolate Muffin Goddess?' She deals with religion, and many different kinds, so she has to respect every wild idea coming in. This is not a religion; it is a life. (Note not a lifestyle, but a life) lets try filling the gapeing holes with information based on sound reasoning rather than fluff.


Woah... Back the truck up... "metaphysical jargon"... Where is there 'religion' mixed in?  I think you better re-read... The words "physiological condition" are used to describe everything from leukemia to depression to cancer or any other medical condition which affects a person on more than just a physical level.  It is "any condition which affects a person's physical, mental and emotional well-being"...  That would make it "medical jargon" not "metaphysical jargon"... So, I think a re-read would be in order, but hey, what do I know... I only wrote something of an 'oogy boogy' nature.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 02, 2010, 05:05:05 pm
Obviously I need to clarify a bit. I'm not saying that there is not the possibility that there is some type of energy that is needed; just that there is no way to test for it, and unless you make what ever equivalent of a PKE meter than there is no way to present any of that to the scientific community. This is a fight that I evened up giving up long ago because of people getting in to semantics; I guess I'm back at it because I believe something too. Some of you believe in energies and aliens, I believe that everything can be explained given enough study and time by mundane forces. Even the Chinese explanation of various types of Chi energy, when applying the actual definitions rather that the half understood spiritual crap, is understandable and predictable by science. Holding fast to ideas, no mater how long they are held, and never challenging them is just another type of ignorance. Remember, the world was flat and the sun orbited the earth at different times, and both were knows to be true for multiple generations.
So simply, I don't care what people want to believe; I want to know what the truth is behind the veil of mysticism.

As for implications of "discussion regarding this definition is so widely accepted by the group he is a part of is the result of the massive amounts of conversation and discussion that has most likely transpired to manifest such a definition," this is misapplied. Just because some one that runs a group has a definition for something says nothing to discussion; especially in a community where those with differing ideas have been shouted out rather than conversed with. There has been many times before where I have presented my ideas in a "free open discussion" to find that it was truly a tyrannical mob rule environment. As best stated by Jayne on Firefly, "You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get ta beat ya with until ya acknowledge who's in ruddin' command."

Ya know... I'm getting the hint that you just don't like me, so are going to find fault in anything I do, say, write, contribute.  Fine.  That's cool by me.  I'm NOT the only member of NOVA on this board and they can attest to the fact that I do NOT throttle people who don't believe as I do, accept what I say as gospel or whatever you wish to accuse me of from here on out.

Obviously you didn't pay attention to the fact that NOVA is a round table organization with no set individual in charge, but that doesn't matter... Nor the fact that everything agreed upon BY NOVA has been voted on... Nope... That doesn't even matter two shits to you... According to what you've written, I've badgered everyone to vote the way I want them to... or else... *Nice firefly quote btw*...

You are the type of person that I write off... Merely because you formulated an opinion without getting all of the facts and decide to state that opinion whether right, wrong or indifferent about the person to whom you are speaking.  That is fine by me too.  Be yourself... Have fun... But from here on out, I ignore anything you have to state to me or about me.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 02, 2010, 07:24:03 pm
Ah, we are getting into some interesting meat now...

Where is the line between Elitism and wisdom?

Some of us, have experience to share.  That experience lends to some perspectives which are certainly useful.  That experience, for example, lends to the ability to dicern between fiction/fantasy and plausible events.

For example... going back to the light sensitivity debate (chose becasue its a good example).  Someone tells me that they are a vampire because they are uncomfortable going into the sun, and that this in itself is enough to show they are not human when coupled with their pale skin.  My experience tells me, that I know vamps, both pranic and sang, who have no problem with the sun whatsoever.  I know vamps of varying races.  Further, my experience tells me every vampire I have met to date is indeed human biologically.  I propose that their light sensitivity may not be a indicator of vampirism, but rather a induced reaction brought on by avoiding sunlight over the years.

Because I argue a point based on logic and experience, am I being elite?  I would say no.  Skeptical, yes.  I am saying I have contradictory experience to the proposed theory and need more proof than anecdotal to warrant changing my perspective.

Converse situation.  Say someone says they are a vampire.  I tell them they are full of it because they are not part of my personal house, nor do they trace back to anyone in that house.   I claim my house is the only one with real vampires and all others are pretenders.

This, would make me elite.

I think, one has to be very aware that the term 'elite' is a political one.  It can be used or misused.  Sometimes, people get frusterated at their standing, and use the term to attack others in higher positions, I would think.

Wisdom will always understand that there are many paths to it, where true elitism believes itself to be the ULTIMATE path. 

Personally.  I take everyone at their word.  You say your a vampire, so be it... Until I've personally met you, I can't say one way or another.  I openly acknowledge that I am not the end all in vampiric knowledge and that I am still learning nuances to my own condition.  I discuss, even heatedly, issues based on my experiences, experimentation and the 11 1/2 years of nursing I had.  When I find a new truth, I incorporate it and thank the source where that information came from.  I've been doing this for as long as I can remember.

As I mentioned, I've been on both sides of the line when it comes to elitism... Some say that I am an elitist, others say I should take a harder stance towards it.  Elitism, when used properly affords the ability to grow more stable in a view, group or belief.  When you add into the mix such things as arrogance, superiority complexes or some such thing, elitism then becomes a dark and devastating weapon.

By voting to keep NOVA a 'vampire only' organization, we've been called elitist, but our reasoning behind this was because we hadn't even hammered out the differences between the Houses involved yet.  What would be acceptable behavior?  What would be grounds for removal from the organization? What would be the terms for allowing other Houses/Clans/Covens/Orders to participate? et cetera ad nauseum...  One thing each of us readily agreed on was "No shadow Houses".  Each of the participating Houses had their own reasons for this, but it was an agreed upon 'term' to our (NOVAs) CoE.  My own personal view is that every shadow House that has been around has flaunted outside the acceptable guidelines for any community... What it all amounted to was, how could we, as an organization, hope to help those in our community, if we were too busy trying to deal with crap from other communities as well as the sometimes insurmountable shit that flows from our own?  The way we saw it, better to clean up our own yard than worry about the neighbors...  Yet... We're elitist because we won't include the therians, otherkin and every joe blow that wants to sit in on our Council meetings... *shrugs*  Most of this crap comes from a person/House that NO LONGER SITS ON THE COUNCIL for various reasons including nefarious actions to members of communities outside of the New Orleans area... Yet... WE are the elitist. 

Because I take people 'at their word' until I find out one way or another, I have been told that I am being too lenient towards those claiming to be vampires...  What?  Just because I KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt what I am, where does that give me the right to judge another?  I do not lay waste to another's claim of being a vampire.  I will lay waste to claims of being around more years than are currently medically capable of the human anatomy.  I will lay waste to claims of supernatural abilities when everything we do is within the realm of the natural, just not what the mundane person would do. (IE... Everyone can drink blood, but a sanguinary vampire will derive 'nourishment' in the form of energy from it while the average/mundane person will simply get sick if they ingest too much of it... Blood is, after all, a natural emetic...)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on August 02, 2010, 08:17:21 pm
-fans self happily from the flush of endorphins-

Here Here!


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on August 03, 2010, 12:20:03 am
Woah... Back the truck up... "metaphysical jargon"... Where is there 'religion' mixed in?  I think you better re-read... The words "physiological condition" are used to describe everything from leukemia to depression to cancer or any other medical condition which affects a person on more than just a physical level.  It is "any condition which affects a person's physical, mental and emotional well-being"...  That would make it "medical jargon" not "metaphysical jargon"... So, I think a re-read would be in order, but hey, what do I know... I only wrote something of an 'oogy boogy' nature.

Cancer is a physical condition with emotional and psychological side effects. I had a front row seat to those effects in my Mother so I would thank you to get your head out of your ass where that is concerned as until you have seen it first hand, and especially in a family member you know exactly jack and shit.
Your group's definition has nothing to do with proper medicine; it is at best a half completed hypothesis. The metaphysical and religious over tones are in the fact that all of this is based on faith. We have no idea what it is that we are after and saying that it "is a physiological condition wherein the afflicted personís body does not either produce enough, or none at all, of the essential energies to maintain a proper balance of physical, mental and emotional well-being" is a stretch as this is taken on faith that this is the case. What "Essential energies" are you talking about? Can you name any of them? What if it's more mundane as a simple enzyme or maybe a protean fold that is not replicated readily? It is no secret that I see psi vampires as something different than sang, so don't bother with that. It is fairly obvious that the two are after different things considering the effect differences, mainly levels of euphoria and physical energy increases.

On to your next post as you can't seem to utilize the available systems for ease of viewing...
Ya know... I'm getting the hint that you just don't like me, so are going to find fault in anything I do, say, write, contribute.  Fine.  That's cool by me.  I'm NOT the only member of NOVA on this board and they can attest to the fact that I do NOT throttle people who don't believe as I do, accept what I say as gospel or whatever you wish to accuse me of from here on out.

Obviously you didn't pay attention to the fact that NOVA is a round table organization with no set individual in charge, but that doesn't matter... Nor the fact that everything agreed upon BY NOVA has been voted on... Nope... That doesn't even matter two shits to you... According to what you've written, I've badgered everyone to vote the way I want them to... or else... *Nice firefly quote btw*...

You are the type of person that I write off... Merely because you formulated an opinion without getting all of the facts and decide to state that opinion whether right, wrong or indifferent about the person to whom you are speaking.  That is fine by me too.  Be yourself... Have fun... But from here on out, I ignore anything you have to state to me or about me.

I have nothing against you at all; I just do not stand for people making incredible, unfounded, or simply incorrect statements. I spent to many years doing that. I do not care what your organizational structure is as I have no desire in joining; you are another person to me and that is all. I made no opinion. I stated that because someone says that something is fair and balanced does not make it true; just look at Fox News. I have no idea about your groups internal workings, I was making a cautionary statement as I have been at the brunt of such behavior before. If you want to take it as an accusation go for it, it wasn't sent as one though.

Personally, I am less than eager to trust someone who has chosen to out themselves.

I have to say I resemble that remark. As for concerns later expressed of the outing of others; that is a thing that would speak to the integrity of the person. I know the real details behind a good handful of people in the vampire community in general; but I would not pass the information lightly myself. As I pointed out before though; it doesn't really matter anyway. To the questions of nobility, again that is differing per person.  I believe that people like Don Henry and Michelle Belanger do try to present a better image than some do. Problem is that there are the metaphysical trappings that follow with. One interesting thing that I just realized, and maybe someone can help with this, has there been a sane sanguine or hybrid vampire that has been in the open?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: NyteMuse on August 03, 2010, 12:50:10 am
One interesting thing that I just realized, and maybe someone can help with this, has there been a sane sanguine or hybrid vampire that has been in the open?

Depends how one defines "sane" (as that does seem to be quite the subjective hotbed of contention in the community).
Don Henrie IDed as hybrid I believe, but most don't really regard him as sane.
Dominae Drakonis was on MonsterQuest and...well...she wasn't exactly up to Sharkey's level of crazy, but not the sanest I've seen.
I hear mixed reviews on Zilchy. He's hybrid, but not sure if he's done anything more than YouTube and print appearances.
LadyCG was out for a while (print and video), but hasn't done much recently to my knowledge.
Sangi's done some semi-public things, but I don't think any video.
Drake Mefestta is the only other sane-ish sang or hybrid I've seen putting a face out there in the open. Yes, he has some problems with wording and doesn't seem to have the clearest view as to the greater VC, but he's a hell of a lot better than Vampyra.

And for an example of the subjectivity, I'm sure RK (and probably some other folk on here) has problems with all of these people or regards them as not sane.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on August 03, 2010, 01:00:58 am
Didn't realize Don Henrie was a hybrid; only ever heard psi stuff regarding him. If CG was out I must have missed it; her books have been published under "Lady CG" and I would not call that very out. (more like peaking through a cracked door.) Yes, she is fairly sane. I'll have to check out the rest as I recognize some names, but I can't exactly place them.
Thanks, good list NyteMuse.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: NyteMuse on August 03, 2010, 01:07:31 am
Didn't realize Don Henrie was a hybrid; only ever heard psi stuff regarding him. If CG was out I must have missed it; her books have been published under "Lady CG" and I would not call that very out. (more like peaking through a cracked door.) Yes, she is fairly sane. I'll have to check out the rest as I recognize some names, but I can't exactly place them.
Thanks, good list NyteMuse.

Oh, were you meaning completely public with legal names and everything when you said "out"? That would limit things a bit more, and require more research I think. I know Zilchy's legal name (not hard to find) but not the others...not sure that "Drake Mefestta" isn't an assumed name.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on August 03, 2010, 10:32:37 am
Didn't realize Don Henrie was a hybrid; only ever heard psi stuff regarding him. If CG was out I must have missed it; her books have been published under "Lady CG" and I would not call that very out. (more like peaking through a cracked door.) Yes, she is fairly sane. I'll have to check out the rest as I recognize some names, but I can't exactly place them.
Thanks, good list NyteMuse.

Oh, were you meaning completely public with legal names and everything when you said "out"? That would limit things a bit more, and require more research I think. I know Zilchy's legal name (not hard to find) but not the others...not sure that "Drake" isn't an assumed name.

Yup, I sure was; actual information within reason. Not saying that they have their address, a map to their house, full list of family, and phone contact list or anything; just that they are not hiding behind a pseudonym.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: NyteMuse on August 03, 2010, 11:23:21 am
Yup, I sure was; actual information within reason. Not saying that they have their address, a map to their house, full list of family, and phone contact list or anything; just that they are not hiding behind a pseudonym.

The internet's a scary place...wasn't it you who said earlier anyone persistent enough could find out whatever they wanted about a person with sufficient time? Legal names could easily lead to address (which would then lead to map), phone number, and possibly even family list. My general conception of out/public is appearing in video or with photo in print articles, as people do get recognized from those.

But anyway, off-topic.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Merticus on August 03, 2010, 11:27:32 am
The internet scary?  Seriously?  What would make anyone think that?  :o

::steps back into the shadows; all the while hiding behind a pseudonym::


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Isealdor on August 03, 2010, 11:38:02 am
Yup, I sure was; actual information within reason. Not saying that they have their address, a map to their house, full list of family, and phone contact list or anything; just that they are not hiding behind a pseudonym.
Taking this slightly off on a side tangent/off topic, but...

You do realize the inherent issues with using one's legal name, yes? Particularly considering the topics involved. What you consider to be "hiding" for a great many people means not being rejected or shunned by their family, coworkers, and communities at the least, and keeps them from being a target for assaults, criminal charges, family services prejudices, work prejudices that can very easily lead to unemployment, and the like on a greater level.

Within this (and other fringe communities), it is not uncommon or unreasonable for one to use a pseudonym. Also, there is a huge historical precedence for writing using a pen name or pseudonym to protect identity, particularly when writing something that would be rejected by the mainstream audience or when the writer themselves might otherwise be rejected (think female authors of the 1800s). Does that make the writing any less valuable? Of course not.

If someone is able to be active and get information out there, as well as willing to be a spokesperson on whatever level they're comfortable with, while using a pseudonym, why is that somehow less than if they use their legal name? If they are open about what they do, and to a major degree who they are, but decline to provide a legal name for protection purposes, how much less "out" really is that?

Another bit to note...

In this day and age, having a legal name out there does mean that "their address, a map to their house, full list of family, and phone contact list" and much more (up to and including things like satellite images of their house and usually pictures of themselves and their families) would be available to anyone who cares to go look it up. With nothing but a name and a rough geographic location, it is amazing what one is able to find about someone just by digging a little and without paying a dime. If one really wanted to know more, incredible amounts of details about someone's life are easily found with some small fees involved. It truly is an "all or nothing" type situation--if someone doesn't want the general public to know or be able to find out such details as their address or phone number or work history or what street they grew up on or what year their parents divorced, the only way to remotely effectively protect that is by not having their legal name attached to their work in any way. This includes, it should be noted, through the use of registering a pen name through a publisher or any other similar method; CG was brought as an example, and I'm fairly certain her legal name and address (and from that, obviously much more information) can be found via her publisher, if one wanted to dig. You can't have it both ways.

~Isealdor~


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on August 03, 2010, 12:30:26 pm
I agree completely with what you, NyteMuse, Merticus, and Isealdor, have said here (lol @ Merticus..) And wanted to add a bit of info I've recently come across regarding the "dark side" of the internet if you will, regarding Trolls. 

We all know about trolls, and I would not bring it up unless I thought it necessary at all.  A new friend of mine is a frequent and avid youtuber, as well as has profiles on other sites connected to his youtube account.  He made me aware of an occurrence he's become aware of, where there seems to be organizations of trolls on the web, wherein one will strike any sort of persons account with rude comments of all sorts.  If the targeted person does not react to anything the troll says, that troll will call on their connections, and a barrage of heinous, and tremendously rude comments from many many trolls will ensue.  He's told me his block list is pages upon pages long.  And yes, typically the normal reaction to this is "Well, just block them."

Yet, I found a broadcast that was posted on youtube from The Today Show recently about trolls.  They were addressing an occurrence that went far beyond what many would find tolerable or even typical.  A young american girl, beautiful and in high school, had been an avid youtuber.  She suddenly and seemingly out of no-where was found having committed suicide in her room via hanging.  The reasons for this were said to be unknown.  The parents were interviewed, and stated that not only was her account hacked, but their email was found out, and they began to receive several hateful emails from folks telling them they were glad their daughter had killed herself, along with many other terrible comments.

I guess it's just some more food for thought regarding the topic of the internet, and safety. 
Here's the video if you wish to see it. Also, you might want to turn the usercaptions off.  It's pretty rude.
http://tinyurl.com/ybqss63


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: sphynxcatvp on August 03, 2010, 03:22:47 pm
Quote
Nytemuse wrote:
...I hear mixed reviews on Zilchy. He's hybrid, but not sure if he's done anything more than YouTube and print appearances.
LadyCG was out for a while (print and video), but hasn't done much recently to my knowledge.
Sangi's done some semi-public things, but I don't think any video....

LadyCG was on the A&E special "Secret Lives of Vampires" I think. I know it was A&E, I'm not certain on the title.

Sangi does the occasional interview (she did a voice one recently with Corvis Nocturnum) but you're right, not video.

I don't know if Zilchy's done other videos besides YouTube, but he's got a LOT on YouTube...

Quote
Demzon
Yup, I sure was; actual information within reason...just that they are not hiding behind a pseudonym.

I will echo Isealdor's points about being able to find massive amounts of information about people by name alone. One blogger (sorry, I don't remember who, may have been a link off Blues News last month) actually posted it as a challenge, posted just the name and invited people to find out more details and call him at work.

He got a rude awakening about 15 minutes later by a caller who not only had HIS name / address / location, but also his wife and kids, when they went on vacation, when they got back, what he liked to buy at stores, how many and what pets he has, and a few other details PLUS his work number (hence the call.)

All that in 15 minutes.

And you wonder why people want to stay behind a pseudonym? I *know* there's some seriously mentally unbalanced people out there - this community seems to attract them by the truckload. :P I don't need them showing up at my doorstep (I like having my family safe), and I'm sure others don't either.



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Merticus on August 03, 2010, 03:23:30 pm
Bringing this topic back on track...

"Real Vampirism" (Top 10 Results - Google) - February 25, 2008:

www.earthspirit.com/fireheart/fhvampire.html
www.angelfire.com/biz4/vampyreresearch/faq.html
www.sanguinarius.org/links/
www.sphynxcatvp.nocturna.org/
www.drinkdeeplyanddream.com/realvampire/
www.geocities.com/vampiricstudies/
www.suscitatio.com/
www.cavernsofblood.com/we'll_be_the_judge_of_that/vampire.html
www.vampiresamongus.com/realvampxchange.shtml
www.aquilus.net/

"Real Vampirism" (Top 10 Results - Google) - August 3, 2010:

www.vampirewebsite.net/
www.angelfire.com/biz4/vampyreresearch/faq.html
www.earthspirit.com/fireheart/fhvampire.html
www.suscitatio.com/
www.drinkdeeplyanddream.com/realvampire/
www.nephtys667.tripod.com/
www.vampire-church.com/
www.vampires.nu/
www.youtube.com/user/vampirezilchy
www.academyofvampirism.com/


* * * * *


Web Site Traffic Rankings Snapshot
A Sampling Of Vampire Community Sites


February 25, 2008 / August 3, 2010

Alexa:

drinkdeeplyanddream.com   113,939 / 1,163,798
vampiretemple.com   169,019 / 1,062,560
vampires.nu   297,496 / 731,713
sanguin.org   594,253 / Inactive Site
sanguinarius.org   600,677 / 1,062,579
vampress.net   640,023 / Inactive Site
darknessembraced.com   968,412 / 1,910,392
aquilus.net   1,120,081 / 9,440,926
atlantavampirealliance.com   1,391,009 / 3,328,310
vampiredon.net   1,399,813 / Inactive Site
psivamp.org   1,497,921 / 1,739,508
kheperu.org   1,697,233 / 4,345,536
vcmb.org   1,982,105 / 24,802,449
vampire-church.com   2,154,624 / 3,315,952
strigoivii.org   2,415,412 / 4,156,070
suscitatio.com   2,438,788 / 7,691,271
houseofottawa.com   2,892,231 / 23,695,490
hiddenshadowsvamp.com   3,400,143 / No Data
michellebelanger.com   3,435,941 / 4,251,409
sphynxcatvp.nocturna.org   4,375,002 / 4,046,150
trueformwithin.org   4,726,885 / Inactive Site
houseofthedreaming.org   10,522,233 / 12,944,471
ordo-sekhemu.org   12,788,069 / 4,667,069
shadowlore.net   No Data / No Data
templeuvup.com   No Data / No Data
courtoflazarus.org   No Data / No Data
house-quinotaur.org   No Data / 18,615,595
lesvampires.org   No Data / 16,190,968
sahjaza.com   No Data / 13,722,869

*vampirewebsite.net ~ / 390,378
*vampirerave.com ~ / 205,342
*fairiesvampires.com ~ / 464,841
*vampirelifestyle.com ~ / 1,277,441
*academyofvampirism.com ~ / 2,603,872


Quantcast:

vampires.nu   73,372 / 68,628
vampress.net   116,185 / Inactive Site
psychicvampire.org   116,786 / 91,345
sanguinarius.org   118,851 / 194,500
darknessembraced.com   214,752 / 43,529
vampiretemple.com   289,896 / 55,558
vampires.com   327,416 / 45,335
drinkdeeplyanddream.com   409,812 / 451,669
vampire-church.com   533,863 / 344,939
strigoivii.org   571,546 / No Data
aquilus.net   572,091 / 94,958
psivamp.org   762,617 / 704,091
michellebelanger.com   852,901 / No Data
trueformwithin.org   896,783 / Inactive Site
vampiredon.net   996,674 / Inactive Site
vcmb.org   1,011,360 / No Data
suscitatio.com   1,052,789 / No Data
hiddenshadowsvamp.com   1,685,838 / No Data
shadowlore.net   1,710,166 / No Data
kheperu.org   1,830,125 / 385,046
sphynxcatvp.nocturna.org   1,861,452 / No Data
templeuvup.com   2,087,177 / No Data
houseofthedreaming.org   2,647,584 / No Data
atlantavampirealliance.com   3,066,122 / No Data
houseofottawa.com   3,153,190 / No Data
sanguin.org   4,361,558 / Inactive Site
courtoflazarus.org   4,476,590 / No Data
house-quinotaur.org   5,179,550 / No Data
lesvampires.org   5,497,129 / No Data
ordo-sekhemu.org   5,680,768 / No Data
sahjaza.com   6,726,104 / No Data

*vampirewebsite.net ~ / 41,209
*vampirerave.com ~ / 53,003
*fairiesvampires.com ~ / 44,078


** This data is sorted from highest traffic rank to lowest.
*** Some newer web sites have not been listed because comparison data did not exist in 2008.



* * * * *


Keyword Effectiveness Index (KEI)

"Vampirism"

 vampirism
 symptoms of vampirism
 vampires/ vampirism
 modern day vampirism
 history on vampirism
 oblivion vampirism
 vampirism a religion
 real vampirism
 laws of vampirism
 vampirism collection 2009 torrent
 psychic vampirism
 modern vampirism

"Real Vampires"

 types of real vampires
 real vampire abilities
 real vampires
 real vampires and werewolves
 real vampires werewolves
 chat with real vampires
 are there real vampires
 real vampire slayers
 real vampires vampire
 real vampires don't sparkle

"Vampires"

 vampires
 vampire diaries
 vampire art
 vampire names
 vampire
 alyssa milano vampire
 alyssa milano embrace of the vampire
 real life vampires
 vampire girls
 vampire contact lenses
 real vampire
 spell to become a vampire
 vampires exist
 vampire diaries tv series
 the vampire diaries
 vampire drawings
 history of vampires
 vampire porn
 vampire history
 become a real vampire


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on August 03, 2010, 03:37:00 pm
Could it simply be that the majority of real vamps with computer access have now found the community, read what they needed to read, and moved on with their lives with a lower level of participation in discussion here?  We can surmise there are still many out there who aren't aware of the community, but if most have already found it, wouldn't the participation level appear to shrink at that point, due to the lack of continued high numbers coming in?  Perhaps now it's just a few stragglers, and awakening teens?

How many real vamps did we think were out there? ^_^  It wasn't going to keep growing exponentially forever.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Soulshroude on August 03, 2010, 04:45:32 pm
Quote
By voting to keep NOVA a 'vampire only' organization, we've been called elitist, but our reasoning behind this was because we hadn't even hammered out the differences between the Houses involved yet.  What would be acceptable behavior?  What would be grounds for removal from the organization? What would be the terms for allowing other Houses/Clans/Covens/Orders to participate? et cetera ad nauseum...  One thing each of us readily agreed on was "No shadow Houses".  Each of the participating Houses had their own reasons for this, but it was an agreed upon 'term' to our (NOVAs) CoE.  My own personal view is that every shadow House that has been around has flaunted outside the acceptable guidelines for any community... What it all amounted to was, how could we, as an organization, hope to help those in our community, if we were too busy trying to deal with crap from other communities as well as the sometimes insurmountable shit that flows from our own?  The way we saw it, better to clean up our own yard than worry about the neighbors...  Yet... We're elitist because we won't include the therians, otherkin and every joe blow that wants to sit in on our Council meetings... *shrugs*  Most of this crap comes from a person/House that NO LONGER SITS ON THE COUNCIL for various reasons including nefarious actions to members of communities outside of the New Orleans area... Yet... WE are the elitist. 

I am going to address this personally:

Zaar, I thought we were done taking "digs" at one another last year and yet you openly instigate petty drama.  I am slightly amused.  Ahem, let me address this quote by you.


Seems as though someone is putting words in my mouth by stating that "Most of this crap comes from a person/House that NO LONGER SITS ON THE COUNCIL for various reasons including nefarious actions to members of communities outside of the New Orleans area... YOu will remember that I was for the act of rejecting "otherkin", etc.  From the Counci.  It was not the fact that I dropped out of the Council because I thought most of what you were wanting to bring to the table was in an elitist fashio.. not in the slightest.  I left the Council because I did not like what I was hearing, regarding the slander of other members within the community, very respected members might I add, I noticed there were certain motives surrounding the Council that were suspect.  I dropped out of the Council because I did not know its true name was NOVA until a few months later.  Thus our little quarrel.

What was done outside the New Orleans area I will NOT apologize for because I was testing certain members hoping that they were not backstabbers nor slanderous.  I was proven wrong in the end.  It was every member for themselves, elitist as it was seen that when one member takes something to another member, that member will retaliate as if they had power over other members.  This was never the case.  I wish people would get the whole story before they draw conclusions rather then depending on one side of it all.

I have never had a problem with NOVA, I dropped out quietly, its not my fault that drama mongers such as yourself wish to take "digs" and slander others for their own benefit.  But, what benefit would that be?  It only shows the audience your true colors.

This OLD drama needs to die already, otherwise I almost feel compelled to visit one of the next NOVA meetings and resolve this "issue" personally.  Why?  For one, because I can and two, I will not be bullied or pushed around by those who think they have power over others in the community.  I DO NOT PLAY GAMES...

To all members of the community that read this post, I apologize for bringing New Orleans issues up on this site, but I felt that I had to put my two cents in.  I am known to do that.  It's not like NOLA issues are anyone elses business to begin with, so I am not entirely sure why Zaar put the comment the way he did, unless he simply wanted to prove a point.  No one has ever asked me about my intentions or beliefs, thus no one really knows either.  It helps to ask before drawing inaccurate conclusions.  Once again, this looks badly for the NOLA community.  No wonder why we're not that respected here.  Just saying.

Please leave the drama at the door, and enjoy the rest of your visit on this forum.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on August 03, 2010, 09:45:35 pm
...Ok well...Seeing as how you basically stalked him to this site (noting that this was your first post), I think YOU might be the one obsessed with drama, Soulshroude...

Secondly, no one ever said that the New Orleans community wasn't respected on this site....at least to my knowledge. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on August 03, 2010, 09:56:11 pm
Or possibly (speaking here from personal experience), SoulShroude doesn't like people spreading lies and bullshit about him/herself, and seeks to keep the record clear. This may be the truth, it may not be, I don't know either way, but I am WELL aware of certain self titled 'elders' going great distances to spread lies, drama and bullshit about myself, and the only way to counter it, is to stand up and say very clearly, this is what it IS, and kindly go **** yourself.  Been there, Done that.


Again tho, I dont know if this is SoulShroude's case or not, but with the OVC, it is most certainly possible. I would suggest, SangSavvy, keeping that in mind.

Now, regarding the people who are or were out - Henrie Ive not met personally but strikes me as an all out nutcase. CG, on the other hand, I DO know, IRL, and she did do one vid appearance and one book - the appearances stopped when much of the OVC took exception to her yankee notion of free speech; in that she supported one of her members advocating vampiric rape and force feeding. (I take pleasure in saying I had a small part in exposing that disgusting lil travesty.) Keep in mind, she is Canadian, and our speech laws are different as well.  Her book, by the way, got yanked, due to a, ahem, legal tangle she ran into. (Plagarism and such isnt such a good idea.) And frankly? Good Riddance.

These are just two examples of many many many things I have seen and/or heard about in the realms of the OVC, things that sour the taste for soooo many people, that see this drama and say, Fuck that, I want no part of it.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Eilis on August 04, 2010, 01:34:30 pm
The Aset Ka has done more to destroy the community than any of the websites colored in pink.  Why haven't they been singled out?
www.asetka.org
www.vampirism.subject-expert.com




Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Taris on August 04, 2010, 02:29:29 pm
I don't think they are finger pointing or blaming anyone particularly. But this was supposed to be about the general decline not really fully related to the individual nuisances of the community. This is what I see from this post though. Ellis everyone has their views. From the Aset Ka to the Strigoi Vii. I normally don't judge even if I feel some of the things they do as wrong in my perspective. Some of the teachings odd and a bit stupid. I simply observe, learn about them, and see what is and isn't me and go on my way.

From the Chaos Magick path I studied I learned everything may have truths hidden in it even be it Christianity or Islam or even the less common belief systems such as voodoo or shamanism. You simply have to seek them out and take what you wish from them be it knowledge, ritual, or portions of the belief itself if it works for you and if you can stomach it.

As for the decline in the community? Can we attribute it to any one website? Any one belief system within the community? There are so many! And if someone has found that site they have certainly searched as a Google search i just now did on both "Vampirism" and "Vampyrism" did not turn up the site at all.

I feel and have said this before in two posts I believe? Or maybe it was just that one semi drunken rant I had on here. But I feel that it is simply the drama and the politics that will drive a lot of the would be Vampyre, other-kin, or donor away from the community. Be it the club based NY portion or the spiritual based?(not sure on this part) New Orleans portion or even the web sites that are not physical location based. There is so much of this "He isn't doing it right he feeds sang!" and "You are talking about energy? You don't know what you are talking about!". Too much drama. Too much politics. Too much of the my way is the right was BS. Not enough of the spirituality, Sometimes I wonder if there should be a post "State of the Vampyre community:Decline of spirituality within the community?" As it seems nowadays there are more people talking about the state of the politics of the community and who should or shouldn't be an elder or a leader in the community than actual guidance for those new to the community.

This, again, being my personal views on this subject. Do others see this too? Do others realize the potential this has to tear the community apart from the inside out? We have enough criticism from the mundane communities, the hardcore bible thumpers who would stand outside of clubs with their signs and stares. Their screams and cries as to how WE are wrong to be ourselves within a community of others of supposed like mind. Do we really need to be constantly criticizing those within while we are a part of this whole?

I just wish the quest for knowledge was stronger than the quest for simple acceptance within a community. I wish that people would seek THEIR truths instead of accepting someone telling them what they perceive the truths to be. I wish that we would all come together and stop all this idiotic bickering, blame gaming, and crying about past and present wrongs. Let it be water under the bridge? Think that was the saying anyway. Come together and work out differences. Accept others views and that yours may be different. As for rules? Heh. How can you set rules for a worldwide community of independent people? Guidelines yes but shunning one who would feed from a large room bit by bit from each one sating themselves and not taking too much from those around them? Shunning those who would feed psi or sang or both? Differences of opinions causing flame wars because someone said I'm a Vampyre and a christian? I mean cmon people but the way I see it is its normally simple mundane bs that gets everyone's panties in a bunch. Cant we all agree to disagree? Learn to get along and HELP each other and the community instead of harming it more and more over time?

Dark blessings everyone and I hope you all find the paths you seek and your own knowledge and truth behind everything.

Taris


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 04, 2010, 05:54:10 pm
Quote
By voting to keep NOVA a 'vampire only' organization, we've been called elitist, but our reasoning behind this was because we hadn't even hammered out the differences between the Houses involved yet.  What would be acceptable behavior?  What would be grounds for removal from the organization? What would be the terms for allowing other Houses/Clans/Covens/Orders to participate? et cetera ad nauseum...  One thing each of us readily agreed on was "No shadow Houses".  Each of the participating Houses had their own reasons for this, but it was an agreed upon 'term' to our (NOVAs) CoE.  My own personal view is that every shadow House that has been around has flaunted outside the acceptable guidelines for any community... What it all amounted to was, how could we, as an organization, hope to help those in our community, if we were too busy trying to deal with crap from other communities as well as the sometimes insurmountable shit that flows from our own?  The way we saw it, better to clean up our own yard than worry about the neighbors...  Yet... We're elitist because we won't include the therians, otherkin and every joe blow that wants to sit in on our Council meetings... *shrugs*  Most of this crap comes from a person/House that NO LONGER SITS ON THE COUNCIL for various reasons including nefarious actions to members of communities outside of the New Orleans area... Yet... WE are the elitist. 

I am going to address this personally:

Zaar, I thought we were done taking "digs" at one another last year and yet you openly instigate petty drama.  I am slightly amused.  Ahem, let me address this quote by you.


Seems as though someone is putting words in my mouth by stating that "Most of this crap comes from a person/House that NO LONGER SITS ON THE COUNCIL for various reasons including nefarious actions to members of communities outside of the New Orleans area... YOu will remember that I was for the act of rejecting "otherkin", etc.  From the Counci.  It was not the fact that I dropped out of the Council because I thought most of what you were wanting to bring to the table was in an elitist fashio.. not in the slightest.  I left the Council because I did not like what I was hearing, regarding the slander of other members within the community, very respected members might I add, I noticed there were certain motives surrounding the Council that were suspect.  I dropped out of the Council because I did not know its true name was NOVA until a few months later.  Thus our little quarrel.

What was done outside the New Orleans area I will NOT apologize for because I was testing certain members hoping that they were not backstabbers nor slanderous.  I was proven wrong in the end.  It was every member for themselves, elitist as it was seen that when one member takes something to another member, that member will retaliate as if they had power over other members.  This was never the case.  I wish people would get the whole story before they draw conclusions rather then depending on one side of it all.

I have never had a problem with NOVA, I dropped out quietly, its not my fault that drama mongers such as yourself wish to take "digs" and slander others for their own benefit.  But, what benefit would that be?  It only shows the audience your true colors.

This OLD drama needs to die already, otherwise I almost feel compelled to visit one of the next NOVA meetings and resolve this "issue" personally.  Why?  For one, because I can and two, I will not be bullied or pushed around by those who think they have power over others in the community.  I DO NOT PLAY GAMES...

To all members of the community that read this post, I apologize for bringing New Orleans issues up on this site, but I felt that I had to put my two cents in.  I am known to do that.  It's not like NOLA issues are anyone elses business to begin with, so I am not entirely sure why Zaar put the comment the way he did, unless he simply wanted to prove a point.  No one has ever asked me about my intentions or beliefs, thus no one really knows either.  It helps to ask before drawing inaccurate conclusions.  Once again, this looks badly for the NOLA community.  No wonder why we're not that respected here.  Just saying.

Please leave the drama at the door, and enjoy the rest of your visit on this forum.

One. Caleb, you are not the only 'former' member of NOVA.  The person in question is none of your concern.

Two.  You just stated that you were 'testing' people... THAT IS A GAME.  That is playing with a person's attitudes, life, love, emotions, whathaveyou.

Three.  Read everything before dropping your 2 cents in, please, and even you would have figured out who this person might have been.  I do still credit you with SOME intellect.

Once again, on another list... NOT EVERYTHING I SAY OR DO IS ABOUT YOU.  Enough said.  I finally hope so.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 04, 2010, 06:37:48 pm

Cancer is a physical condition with emotional and psychological side effects. I had a front row seat to those effects in my Mother so I would thank you to get your head out of your ass where that is concerned as until you have seen it first hand, and especially in a family member you know exactly jack and shit.

**SNIP**  Sorry to hear about your mother's condition, however, as a leukemia sufferer, you may have had the front row spectacle, but I took the ride... Chemo, the drugs, the new 'experimentals'... You name it, I've been through it... So, I think it is you that need to get YOUR head out of YOUR ass, or at least ask a question or two about whom you are speaking to.  I've made no secret about my condition.  EVER.  When a doctor speaks of a condition which has an effect on more than one level of a person, they call it a physiological condition (pertaining to the normal function of the organism)...

You can pick, prod and poke wholes in something all you want, but that doesn't make it any less valid a statement merely because you didn't come up with it yourself...

And therein lies the crux of the issue...  We've all come up with our own version of the definition of vampirism... It is, and ever shall be our downfall until we can all hammer something out, such as the living definition that HoME and NOVA uses...  We KNOW and RECOGNIZE that it is not the best definition out there, but we stand by it because it IS a definition we can point to...  What have you got to point to?  What does your group use?...  We have something...  So you are going to trash us for the fact that we have something?

Ridiculous...
**Back At It**

Your group's definition has nothing to do with proper medicine; it is at best a half completed hypothesis. The metaphysical and religious over tones are in the fact that all of this is based on faith. We have no idea what it is that we are after and saying that it "is a physiological condition wherein the afflicted personís body does not either produce enough, or none at all, of the essential energies to maintain a proper balance of physical, mental and emotional well-being" is a stretch as this is taken on faith that this is the case. What "Essential energies" are you talking about? Can you name any of them? What if it's more mundane as a simple enzyme or maybe a protean fold that is not replicated readily? It is no secret that I see psi vampires as something different than sang, so don't bother with that. It is fairly obvious that the two are after different things considering the effect differences, mainly levels of euphoria and physical energy increases.

**SNIP**

Gee, even the Jimmy Dean sausage commercials talk about the essential energies our bodies need to do their jobs... I thought 3rd grade health class would have taught that to everyone by now...  At least they taught the basic food pyramid when I went to grade school... Admittedly in the stone age, compared to the techno-world we have today... But hey... You want to pick them apart as well, be my guest.

Don't try to make something 'oogy boogy' merely because it doesn't have a quantifiable label for you... It just means that you haven't fit it into your neat little labeled world yet, that's all.  And that's cool.  I would love to know what the frig is wrong with me.  Why I have to have blood to make things right with my body.  I would love some technical, clinically approved term that I could take to my doctor and discuss a treatment option that doesn't involve someone opening a vein for me.  But medicine is just not there yet.

Like it or not.  So to abjectly poke holes in something because it doesn't meet your 'exacting' standards is a waste of energy.  You want to do something... HELP COME UP WITH A BETTER DEFINITION and stop shitting on the progress others have made.

On to your next post as you can't seem to utilize the available systems for ease of viewing...

**SNIP**  Everyone knows I am not the most techno-capable person.  I don't present myself to be nor do I fault anyone for being better at it than I am.  So, I use what I know.  Ya don't like it... Either teach me better of overlook it, but snide comments on it don't help either of us.

**Back At It**

Ya know... I'm getting the hint that you just don't like me, so are going to find fault in anything I do, say, write, contribute.  Fine.  That's cool by me.  I'm NOT the only member of NOVA on this board and they can attest to the fact that I do NOT throttle people who don't believe as I do, accept what I say as gospel or whatever you wish to accuse me of from here on out.

Obviously you didn't pay attention to the fact that NOVA is a round table organization with no set individual in charge, but that doesn't matter... Nor the fact that everything agreed upon BY NOVA has been voted on... Nope... That doesn't even matter two shits to you... According to what you've written, I've badgered everyone to vote the way I want them to... or else... *Nice firefly quote btw*...

You are the type of person that I write off... Merely because you formulated an opinion without getting all of the facts and decide to state that opinion whether right, wrong or indifferent about the person to whom you are speaking.  That is fine by me too.  Be yourself... Have fun... But from here on out, I ignore anything you have to state to me or about me.

I have nothing against you at all; I just do not stand for people making incredible, unfounded, or simply incorrect statements. I spent to many years doing that. I do not care what your organizational structure is as I have no desire in joining; you are another person to me and that is all. I made no opinion. I stated that because someone says that something is fair and balanced does not make it true; just look at Fox News. I have no idea about your groups internal workings, I was making a cautionary statement as I have been at the brunt of such behavior before. If you want to take it as an accusation go for it, it wasn't sent as one though.

There was nothing 'cautionary' in the way you presented anything.  You saw something you didn't like, attacked it, offered no counter means to possibly correct the issue and continued the attack.  Very judiciously, I might add (You'd make a damned good lawyer).  But it still brings us back to square one... A working, living definition of vampirism...  The crux of the entire issue within the community.  Without a working, living definition, how can we hope to formulate a base 'what makes a person a vampire?'.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on August 04, 2010, 08:07:26 pm
Quote
By voting to keep NOVA a 'vampire only' organization, we've been called elitist, but our reasoning behind this was because we hadn't even hammered out the differences between the Houses involved yet.  What would be acceptable behavior?  What would be grounds for removal from the organization? What would be the terms for allowing other Houses/Clans/Covens/Orders to participate? et cetera ad nauseum...  One thing each of us readily agreed on was "No shadow Houses".  Each of the participating Houses had their own reasons for this, but it was an agreed upon 'term' to our (NOVAs) CoE.  My own personal view is that every shadow House that has been around has flaunted outside the acceptable guidelines for any community... What it all amounted to was, how could we, as an organization, hope to help those in our community, if we were too busy trying to deal with crap from other communities as well as the sometimes insurmountable shit that flows from our own?  The way we saw it, better to clean up our own yard than worry about the neighbors...  Yet... We're elitist because we won't include the therians, otherkin and every joe blow that wants to sit in on our Council meetings... *shrugs*  Most of this crap comes from a person/House that NO LONGER SITS ON THE COUNCIL for various reasons including nefarious actions to members of communities outside of the New Orleans area... Yet... WE are the elitist. 

I am going to address this personally:

Zaar, I thought we were done taking "digs" at one another last year and yet you openly instigate petty drama.  I am slightly amused.  Ahem, let me address this quote by you.


Seems as though someone is putting words in my mouth by stating that "Most of this crap comes from a person/House that NO LONGER SITS ON THE COUNCIL for various reasons including nefarious actions to members of communities outside of the New Orleans area... YOu will remember that I was for the act of rejecting "otherkin", etc.  From the Counci.  It was not the fact that I dropped out of the Council because I thought most of what you were wanting to bring to the table was in an elitist fashio.. not in the slightest.  I left the Council because I did not like what I was hearing, regarding the slander of other members within the community, very respected members might I add, I noticed there were certain motives surrounding the Council that were suspect.  I dropped out of the Council because I did not know its true name was NOVA until a few months later.  Thus our little quarrel.

What was done outside the New Orleans area I will NOT apologize for because I was testing certain members hoping that they were not backstabbers nor slanderous.  I was proven wrong in the end.  It was every member for themselves, elitist as it was seen that when one member takes something to another member, that member will retaliate as if they had power over other members.  This was never the case.  I wish people would get the whole story before they draw conclusions rather then depending on one side of it all.

I have never had a problem with NOVA, I dropped out quietly, its not my fault that drama mongers such as yourself wish to take "digs" and slander others for their own benefit.  But, what benefit would that be?  It only shows the audience your true colors.

This OLD drama needs to die already, otherwise I almost feel compelled to visit one of the next NOVA meetings and resolve this "issue" personally.  Why?  For one, because I can and two, I will not be bullied or pushed around by those who think they have power over others in the community.  I DO NOT PLAY GAMES...

To all members of the community that read this post, I apologize for bringing New Orleans issues up on this site, but I felt that I had to put my two cents in.  I am known to do that.  It's not like NOLA issues are anyone elses business to begin with, so I am not entirely sure why Zaar put the comment the way he did, unless he simply wanted to prove a point.  No one has ever asked me about my intentions or beliefs, thus no one really knows either.  It helps to ask before drawing inaccurate conclusions.  Once again, this looks badly for the NOLA community.  No wonder why we're not that respected here.  Just saying.

Please leave the drama at the door, and enjoy the rest of your visit on this forum.

One. Caleb, you are not the only 'former' member of NOVA.  The person in question is none of your concern.

Two.  You just stated that you were 'testing' people... THAT IS A GAME.  That is playing with a person's attitudes, life, love, emotions, whathaveyou.

Three.  Read everything before dropping your 2 cents in, please, and even you would have figured out who this person might have been.  I do still credit you with SOME intellect.

Once again, on another list... NOT EVERYTHING I SAY OR DO IS ABOUT YOU.  Enough said.  I finally hope so.


Geez Zaar - seems like your having the same fun I am with the VI.  We should make a group - vamps stalked by obsessed wannabes. XDD

(Yes Im poking fun. Live with it. :p )


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: LdyJezabel on August 04, 2010, 09:18:13 pm
Good evening, to set the record strait. There has been many changes with in the counsil since we first got together. It is a shame that some hold gruges on something that has long been past. We dont have time in pointing the finger. Many have come and gone from NOVA. We do not ponder on issues that have happend over a year ago. I belive Calob left out of his own acord for personal reason. There has been others that have been voted out due to there actions. As a whole we have elemenated most of the drama. Making our focus in a more positive direction in helping our community.

We are growning stronger. Making our goals come out in the open. Being productive. NOVA is still a new consel, that has adapted the round table discutions so we all have an equal vote on things. While we might have had some negative publisity we have learned to work together. All the active Vampire Clans/Covens/Houses/Orders are localy situated here in New Orleans. We belive if you are not local we dont need you to stick your face in our bussness, just as we dont stick our face in other territores bussness. We work togeth. That is the only way we can make a diffrence.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: AVA Staff on August 04, 2010, 09:31:27 pm
Discussion about NOVA is not relative to this thread.  Please stay on topic or create a new thread to discuss such.  Thank you!


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Soulshroude on August 05, 2010, 01:12:18 am
So sue me, Zaar and Jez if I still hold small feelings over being nominated by your NOVA a term entitled:  "Persona Non Grata."  This led me to believe that you were discussing me.  I advance with an apology that I should have come to you first before rattling off at random about something that was phrased to remind me of my past with NOVA in general.  By wording it in such a way that it could have very possibly been me.

As I had posted, I will be attending a meeting shortly after August, to resolve some issues that I still have on my place regarding the nomination of said term.  I thank you for your understanding on this.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 05, 2010, 01:03:56 pm


Geez Zaar - seems like your having the same fun I am with the VI.  We should make a group - vamps stalked by obsessed wannabes. XDD

(Yes Im poking fun. Live with it. :p )

Trouble with this, RK, is that someone HERE had to drop him a line to drag the drama over.  They insinuated it was, Caleb (who has apologized for jumping to conclusions and I have accepted), whom I was talking about when it wasn't.  The discussion was the decline of the community from the online point, but I was mentioning what we, in NOVA were doing in the real world to help keep things stable within our community, hoping it would be taken as a hint on the online things.

I still maintain that we need a working, living definition of 'vampirism' that is accepted by the community (even if it shifts every few years because of nuances embraced).  This gives us a foot/leg/stance to actually work from, versus this group believes it is this, that group believes it is that and never the tween shall meet...

(poking fun is cool... I tend to make fun of myself a lot... Especially facts like in a increasingly techno-based world, I am about as literate as a 3rd grader attempting to read graduate school material)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Taris on August 05, 2010, 02:16:57 pm


Geez Zaar - seems like your having the same fun I am with the VI.  We should make a group - vamps stalked by obsessed wannabes. XDD

(Yes Im poking fun. Live with it. :p )

Trouble with this, RK, is that someone HERE had to drop him a line to drag the drama over.  They insinuated it was, Caleb (who has apologized for jumping to conclusions and I have accepted), whom I was talking about when it wasn't.  The discussion was the decline of the community from the online point, but I was mentioning what we, in NOVA were doing in the real world to help keep things stable within our community, hoping it would be taken as a hint on the online things.

I still maintain that we need a working, living definition of 'vampirism' that is accepted by the community (even if it shifts every few years because of nuances embraced).  This gives us a foot/leg/stance to actually work from, versus this group believes it is this, that group believes it is that and never the tween shall meet...

(poking fun is cool... I tend to make fun of myself a lot... Especially facts like in a increasingly techno-based world, I am about as literate as a 3rd grader attempting to read graduate school material)

There will always be differences in perspectives though Zaar. The naming of it as Vampyre is widely accepted no? Yet there would be those that would still use the term Vampire. Others would use the term Sanguinarian or (have heard in a few conversations) Strigoi Vii as a naming of it.

The definition of it? I dont know if a widely accepted definition would be possible unless it was as generic a definition as possible. "A person who suffers from a spiritual condition in which they require Energy to balance their ethereal self and sustain it." This though would also be generic to the point as to border into otherkin as well? At least from what I see otherkin would be a spiritual condition as well and thus require energy to sustain itself.

So a generic definition as well as a detailed and in depth definition would be difficult for the community at large to agree upon. Just my thoughts on the defining of the term "Vampyre" at a community wide acceptance level.

As for the techie aspect of the world if you had questions about anything technologically feel free to ask I'm normally up to date on whats going on tech wise and normally not such a pain in the ass with using jargon every time I try to explain something. Also, if I don't know it I can find it quickly and will link ya lol.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Soulshroude on August 05, 2010, 05:12:58 pm
The naming of vampYre is widely accepted, granted.  But, it is those who choose the name entitlement of vampYre that are seen a sham or mockery since the majority of the olde spelling users adhere to the "black veil" which is widely seen as a roleplaying manual.  Thus the mockery.  Sang is just a stereotyped segregative definition of feeding.  I suppose the Strigoii members or those who founded the black veil came up with the differant "feeding" terms, as well as the term "awakening"?  I am sure we can argue semantics all night, if you prefer.

Please, correct me if I am wrong.

In my perspective, I think a decline of participation is a regular thing.  Happens all the time, but I always guarantee that by the time Samhain (Halloween) hits again.  Visits and participation levels will be back in full force for the fact that society is easily manipulated, or is subesquently reminded of something dorment inside them.  But if participation levels decline on a massive scare that is clear to the entire community, then something "must" be wrong.  Lack of entertainment, too much drama, what ever the excuse it could the way it is for a specific reason yet to be pointed out.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Taris on August 05, 2010, 05:32:33 pm
A lot of people seek "names" to what they experience as it gives them a sort of focus on what they would be looking for information-wise. Names normally are very strong for people and finding a name to how they feed, what they are, what they are going through, etc normally helps them with the identification of it. Some would choose not to call themselves Sang or Psi or Hybrid while others happily call themselves whichever it may be as it gives identification to aspects of themselves. Not necessarily a bad thing but people can get too wrapped up in labels, names, and status in the community.

On the subject of the Veil, like any other guideline for a society or community, I feel it is simply that. They are guidelines for the community to either live by or disregard because there are plenty that would disregard them, again differing perspectives. Its not about whether or not they seem Role Play-ish or seem off to you nor even myself. Its simply that it helps keep order and drama lessened in some cases. If it works for others who are we to knock em?

I am sure we can argue on the perceptions of various portions of the community at large all night. I personally am not arguing but simply stating my views. Debating? Possibly but again what is there to debate? These terms and guidelines, control factors, or mockeries will continue to be there whether we debate their validity or not.

As for the decline of the community on a massive scale? I have been seeing new member after new member on these boards as well as TheUVUP's board which I frequent also. The newer members may not be participating but watching the bickering? Maybe simply soaking in all the knowledge they can on whatever they can? Or simply just busy with their mundane lives as I am sure we all are at times. I personally have seperated myself from both the physical and online community for periods ranging from a few weeks, to months, and even spent a year apart before. I come back to see the state of the community and whether or not the attitudes have improved. The drama and stress of it lessening or increasing as there is more than enough in ones physical existence and one would be like to keep other drama and stresses from joining the "party". There may be no main reason in the decline but simply a trend. There may be no right reason but all of the reasons here be slightly valid factors in the declining "participation" in the community.

The way I see it I came to seek knowledge on the various conditions and MY spiritual condition from others who may share similar experiences or views on the condition as well as those who may have total opposite views as it may shed some light onto some of my experiences in ways I never would have thought of on my own. I seek those who are new to the community and to the knowledge of their spiritual condition as well as those who would be one of the pillars or long-standing members to help me with my own understanding as I feel we never stop learning about ourselves nor the spiritual. But this is just an example, I seek that and find drama and well BS then I look elsewhere to participate or come back later to get what I may find insightful and see how it fits.

All of the points up until this point may be simply factors of the whole. It may just be that we dont wish to piece them all together and see what the whole picture may actually be and just argue our individual points. Again, just some thoughts on the topic and by no means did I intend to flame, bash, insult, or offend.

Dark Blessings,
Taris


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 05, 2010, 07:18:38 pm

There will always be differences in perspectives though Zaar. The naming of it as Vampyre is widely accepted no? Yet there would be those that would still use the term Vampire. Others would use the term Sanguinarian or (have heard in a few conversations) Strigoi Vii as a naming of it.

The definition of it? I dont know if a widely accepted definition would be possible unless it was as generic a definition as possible. "A person who suffers from a spiritual condition in which they require Energy to balance their ethereal self and sustain it." This though would also be generic to the point as to border into otherkin as well? At least from what I see otherkin would be a spiritual condition as well and thus require energy to sustain itself.

So a generic definition as well as a detailed and in depth definition would be difficult for the community at large to agree upon. Just my thoughts on the defining of the term "Vampyre" at a community wide acceptance level.

As for the techie aspect of the world if you had questions about anything technologically feel free to ask I'm normally up to date on whats going on tech wise and normally not such a pain in the ass with using jargon every time I try to explain something. Also, if I don't know it I can find it quickly and will link ya lol.

Taris,

The problem with trying to label it as a 'spiritual condition', however, does not cover, adequately, all of the people that vampirism has afflicted (I use the term 'afflicted' loosely as I've never seen my vampirism as a 'curse' but more of an 'ailment' that requires dedicated treatment).  Especially being a sanguinary vampire, not feeding takes a VERY physical toll on me.  So, if it were just a condition that caused problems with the 'ethereal' body, I could understand naming it a 'spiritual condition' but it doesn't

Sanguinarian refers to a type of feeding not the vampirism itself and because we, as a community, focused too much attention on feed types and the differences between them, instead of the similarities that many vampires state they share, this has done nothing but fracture us further.

Vampire/Vampyre... Who cares.  I know some people that use them interchangeably while others use 'i' or 'y'...  I tend to just use 'vampire' and be done with it.  Some people do it to 'avoid the stigma', others do it because they say its more 'classic' and still others do it because they say it was the original spelling.  It amounts to the same thing.  A person who must derive a quality they lack or cannot produce in order to maintain their own physical, mental or emotional well-being.  Demzon has a point in that the HoME/NOVA accepted definition is too lacking, however, there simply aren't terms available either medically or in our vocabulary that allot for what it is a vampire does.  I give him great respect for noticing, but to tear it down without trying to build it better... That is just plain lunacy...

New members will see what they want to see, no matter where they are.  Its like going to the Senate.  Person A sees their Senators working diligently to solve whatever crisis is before them while Person B sees a bunch of blow hards screaming and yelling at each other getting no place fast.  And yet, I've been on boards where a person who differs in views from the owners/creators of the board have come in and been ripped to shreds for presenting their views.  Conversely, I've seen new members come in, without reading the rules and begin touting that they are some 675 years old, can fly and are the head of their bloodline. 

Our current problem revolves around cohesiveness and to truly be cohesive we need to stop focusing on our differences, start focusing on our similarities and move towards a working, living definition... "A rose by any other name..."  As it is with the rose, so it is with the vampire, but in order to nail down certain things we have to define vampirism better...

We've got organizations collecting data, as best they can, and even got those of us who are willing to BE tested when it comes time... But, medically speaking, this is still a 'far sight' project.

So, what do we do about these issues in the here and now?

There are so many new sites that are reputed to be 'real vampire' sites, that it is harder and harder to keep up with them.  People migrate between the various sites trying to see where they 'fit' and in doing so...  Well... You get my meaning.  When it was only a couple of sites/groups to go to to ask our questions, it was far easier to track the growth patterns and see the cyclic nature.  Everything from daily life to Spring fever to Summer fun to Fall festivities to you name it...  All of these play roles in how active any community will be online.  Add in this that some people get burnt out from the perpetual dramas in every community, have pissed off the moderators for failing to follow established rules for a board/forum/site, blatant attempts to promote misinformation causing even more widespread drama...  All of this and more plays roles in the rise and fall of any community, let alone an online community.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: WingedWolfPsion on August 05, 2010, 09:12:45 pm
Vampire:  A person who needs to consume blood or energy from others in order to maintain their health and well-being.   <--what is wrong with this definition?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on August 05, 2010, 09:36:20 pm
For some psi vamps, the notion that blood needs to be consumed is a problem. for some sang vamps, the notion that only energy is needed, and blood is just a way to get it, is a problem.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Demzon on August 05, 2010, 11:32:42 pm
WW; it's not fluffy enough for some, and a bit too grounded in that harsh world of realty.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on August 06, 2010, 01:30:00 am
Nice and streamlined.

The use of 'or' is mutually inclusive and does not cater to one philosophy or the other.  The description of need is there in relation to well-being.. although  'health and well-being' is pretty nebulous.  No vampire that I know of has died from not feeding.. its just the body dosnt work as well as it could.. so I do understand the term 'optimal' being used.

We can knit pick on the term 'well being' or debate the ultimate negative effects of not feeding.. but it may be easier to tweak the definition:

Vampire:  A person who needs to consume blood or energy from others in order to maintain an optimal state of being.

Its vague enough to apply, and dosnt run into the medical wall.. because if you are going to claim 'health', eventually you will be required to provide medical proof.  While I am all for this being done.. I dont think it has been to date so we may want to avoid the term for the time being.



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 06, 2010, 01:25:58 pm
Vampire:  A person who needs to consume blood or energy from others in order to maintain their health and well-being.   <--what is wrong with this definition?

Demzon and RK both raise valid points... Even though the definition is about 'vampire' and not 'vampirism', it is a good start.

Labeling vampirism as merely a 'physical condition' is wrong as there is no solid, clinical proof with which we can point to. As too, is labeling it a 'spiritual condition', this can be determined by the numerous reports of vampires who, as I have stated myself, go through physical problems due to lack of feeding (Yes, Paindancer, it will have to be proven one day medically, yet, the number of times I go to the doctor has taught me a few things, as well as 11 1/2 years of nursing)...

A good key factor to think of here would be to keep it on an even keel between the physical feeders and the more ethereal feeders so as not to promote one type over the other while being inclusive of each type that we acknowledge.

Nice and streamlined.

The use of 'or' is mutually inclusive and does not cater to one philosophy or the other.  The description of need is there in relation to well-being.. although  'health and well-being' is pretty nebulous.  No vampire that I know of has died from not feeding.. its just the body dosnt work as well as it could.. so I do understand the term 'optimal' being used.

We can knit pick on the term 'well being' or debate the ultimate negative effects of not feeding.. but it may be easier to tweak the definition:

Vampire:  A person who needs to consume blood or energy from others in order to maintain an optimal state of being.

Its vague enough to apply, and dosnt run into the medical wall.. because if you are going to claim 'health', eventually you will be required to provide medical proof.  While I am all for this being done.. I dont think it has been to date so we may want to avoid the term for the time being.



This is why we chose to define vampirism as a 'physiological condition' because it has an effect on the normal function of the whole organism... That organism, in this instance, being... Well... US... Not just a part of the normal function, but all of the normal function of the 'host' organism.

No matter what, however, there will always be someone who dislikes whatever agreed upon definition is running.  They will think 'that doesn't apply to me' or 'its not clinical enough' or 'its too metaphysical'.  It is just a fact.  But having a working, living definition of vampirism WILL stave off more trouble than it will cause.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on August 06, 2010, 02:49:16 pm
I agree.

I think the definition you came up with is more or less fine, if not a bit on the intellectual side.  Not everyone has the same level of education so a streamlined version may prevent misunderstandings.

But yes, a definition as baseline guide is great.  As a rule.. its going to be harder to sell.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 06, 2010, 05:14:39 pm
I agree.

I think the definition you came up with is more or less fine, if not a bit on the intellectual side.  Not everyone has the same level of education so a streamlined version may prevent misunderstandings.

But yes, a definition as baseline guide is great.  As a rule.. its going to be harder to sell.

*chuckles* Well... I can be a bit verbose... But I don't think reaching an agreed upon definition of 'vampirism' is going to be so hard to sell...  Its going to be the process of reaching an agreement that is going to play havoc and loose the hounds of hell, so to speak. 

As a community who has focused more on the differences than the similarities (such as focusing on feed types instead of 'hey I'm a vampire too'), we've become a fractitious lot exploiting any reason to bear fangs and rend throats... And there is the old adage... You can't please all of the people all of the time. It will, most assuredly, be the act of creating a working, living definition that will cause much of the fuss...

But...  It is a necessary evil in order to form a cohesive community.  Definitions established within any community have always helped a community grow in strength, add to their security (both internal and external) and provide a means for consistent help and teaching of newer members of the community.

This is not to say that each House/Clan/Coven/Order/Organization won't have their own little intricacies, lexicons and CoEs, but it will give us all common ground to speak from and to.  *whispers* kinda like the common tongue in an old AD&D campaign... *shit... showed my geek-hood again* 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Soulshroude on August 06, 2010, 07:22:17 pm
Quote

Trouble with this, RK, is that someone HERE had to drop him a line to drag the drama over.  They insinuated it was, Caleb (who has apologized for jumping to conclusions and I have accepted), whom I was talking about when it wasn't.  The discussion was the decline of the community from the online point, but I was mentioning what we, in NOVA were doing in the real world to help keep things stable within our community, hoping it would be taken as a hint on the online things.
 

Not at all, Zaar.  I joined the forum and Merts site because this is what I do.  I surf the net when researching for information.  It is not my fault that I find posts that are either amusing or slanderous toward other members.  No one guided me toward the site, or your post.  I found them strictly on my own.  That being said, this "issue" is closed and I hope we are both moving on.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Lorilee on August 06, 2010, 08:20:27 pm
Just a note on "anonymity" - AA has been around since 1936, and it's very basis is that of allowing the members to not be exposed to the community at large due to ill conceived perceptions of addiction and the supposed threat that persons with alcohol and drug issues may pose to others.  This has made a lot of people, business  professionals in particular, more likely to participate in the group and therefore to get help for their illness.  Unfortunately, ignorance to a condition often creates fear and it is because of this lack of understanding that some of us choose to remain "quiet" about our affiliations.  However, I am openly in recovery, but 28 years sober this month makes it far easier to be so.  As a NOVA member, I feel the need to keep my association and vampirism "quiet" at this time until I feel that there will be no harm brought to my loved ones because of any negativity associated with my nature/condition.  I don't really care what you call it, but I do agree, and did vote as such. that we need a working definition so that when we are asked by those outside the community we have a unified voice.  However, this is merely our "group" definition -

As far as the posts I have read concerning elitism - well, if you have a PHD in a certain subject then I will assume you have more knowledge in that area than I have - or at least I would hope so given the years you must have spent studying the subject matter.  "It ain't braggin' if you do it and you back it up" says Kid Rock.  Am I better than some in certain areas?  Of course. I am a scrabble elitist! (that's a joke but not really).  Self confidence is so often viewed as snobbery by those who are insecure.  Self esteem is coveted by those with low self worth.  All my opinion, although not an uneducated one.

In closing, I do see some petty semantic arguments here- along with what seems to be a dash of personal vendetta- and perhaps that is why we don't see as much activity as we would like.  Fear is a good way to keep people from expressing their opinions.  All of which should be respected, whether agreed with or not.  Blessings!


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Belfazaar on August 07, 2010, 01:07:40 pm
Just a note on "anonymity" - AA has been around since 1936, and it's very basis is that of allowing the members to not be exposed to the community at large due to ill conceived perceptions of addiction and the supposed threat that persons with alcohol and drug issues may pose to others.  This has made a lot of people, business  professionals in particular, more likely to participate in the group and therefore to get help for their illness.  Unfortunately, ignorance to a condition often creates fear and it is because of this lack of understanding that some of us choose to remain "quiet" about our affiliations.  However, I am openly in recovery, but 28 years sober this month makes it far easier to be so.  As a NOVA member, I feel the need to keep my association and vampirism "quiet" at this time until I feel that there will be no harm brought to my loved ones because of any negativity associated with my nature/condition.  I don't really care what you call it, but I do agree, and did vote as such. that we need a working definition so that when we are asked by those outside the community we have a unified voice.  However, this is merely our "group" definition -

As far as the posts I have read concerning elitism - well, if you have a PHD in a certain subject then I will assume you have more knowledge in that area than I have - or at least I would hope so given the years you must have spent studying the subject matter.  "It ain't braggin' if you do it and you back it up" says Kid Rock.  Am I better than some in certain areas?  Of course. I am a scrabble elitist! (that's a joke but not really).  Self confidence is so often viewed as snobbery by those who are insecure.  Self esteem is coveted by those with low self worth.  All my opinion, although not an uneducated one.

In closing, I do see some petty semantic arguments here- along with what seems to be a dash of personal vendetta- and perhaps that is why we don't see as much activity as we would like.  Fear is a good way to keep people from expressing their opinions.  All of which should be respected, whether agreed with or not.  Blessings!

Don't get me wrong.  I do understand the need for some people to remain anonymous. Fear of losing children, livelihood, business associations, home and worse.  Have even stated that I know that not everyone lives in an area such as New Orleans, where it is 'acceptable' to be vampire, pirate, fae, therian or whathaveyou...  It is the people who expect me to trust them, even after years of communication, explicitly without knowing thing one about them, such as, 'this is what I really look like', 'by the way this is who I am'.  I keep my lines of communication open.  Always have.  Even when I am in seclusion for whatever reason.  I'm open about who I am, what I am, where I can be found and when.  Many people on this board and others have my phone number.  Hell... I've done tarot readings for some of them.

Yet.  There is still this vast gray mass of people, whom I've invited into my life by joining boards, sharing of my experiences (right, wrong or indifferent... Most of what I've learned about my vampirism, though I was brought into the community early was hard won through trial and error...  And I know that it works... FOR ME... It may help others, it may not, but I offer the knowledge freely), moving through concentric circles and even showing up at planned, organized events, such as Twilight or EN, whom I wouldn't know from Adam and Steve... er... Eve, should I meet them on the street...  But I am expected to 'trust' them as if they've been my lifelong friend since grade school...   

Some, I do trust... To a certain extent...  Others...  Because of actions I've been witness to, I am a bit leery of, but will trust to a point...  And still others... I wouldn't trust if they were my own flesh and blood...  And this is BECAUSE of the anonymity factor the internet provides (even though it is, as Demzon pointed out, a false anonymity to someone who knows their way around a computer...   Thankfully, I don't have BBS [Big Brother Syndrome]).  The anonymity factor has allowed people to do everything from play "Mata Hari" to just outright act an ass, all because the person has hidden themselves behind the pc screen, using an "avatar", and thinks no one will ever find out who they are... 

Anonymity through the internet has done more to harm communities, such as ours, than it has done to help those that it was meant to protect... And this is what I've seen since the inception of mass internet communications by the general public...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: NocturnisOrchid on August 11, 2010, 04:23:32 pm


I agree my friend, this does bring up some interesting ideas.
There are many reasons why a person might choose to obscure their identity and become anonymous. Several of these reasons are legal, legitimate and socially approved ofómany acts of charity are performed anonymously, as benefactors do not wish, for whatever reason, to be acknowledged for their action. Someone who feels threatened by someone else might attempt to hide from the threat behind various means of anonymity, a witness to a crime can seek to avoid retribution, for example, by anonymously calling a crime tipline. There are also many illegal reasons to hide behind anonymity. Criminals typically try to keep themselves anonymous either to conceal the fact that a crime has been committed, or to avoid capture.
And the list goes on, there are many reasons good or bad why someone feels to be cloaked in annoymity. I like to think most are of good nature and good spirit. But I think good common sense goes a long way when taking someone at their word when all you have is their words on line.Truly, I get when it was mentioned how many cruel people there are online and they can be cruel as nobody knows who they really are.I have met several in my travels.And not that I am any "ray of sunshine" type of person, but I do try to think most folks have some good somewhere...even though it may be hidden sorta deep  :o subterranean  even... ::)

Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who supposedly form an elite ó a select group of people with, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes ó are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight or those who view their own views as so; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.[1] Alternatively, the term elitism may be used to describe a situation in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people.Such elitism has social and psychological consequences.

I do not go with the belief that any group or type of people are better than anyone else" Absolute power, corrupts absolutely" I tend to   believe this causes a separation of people when in today's age. We do certainly do need some type of cohesiveness and sense of family.Folks who fancy themselves this"elite" type, surely will miss out on some wonderful people who maybe aren't so "elite". In the end, it all comes down to can I look at myself in the mirror everyday.





Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SapphoWolf on October 04, 2010, 07:53:10 pm
I just came upon this post, so please excuse my late arrival.

I can't say as I've noticed any decline in activity.  My website and online groups have been as busy as ever.  In particular, I've gotten a conversation going with people outside the OVC, and the result seems to be increased interest and awareness.  I don't mean trolls, wannabes, and other pains in the rump, either.

Who knows?  It's probably a matter of perspective.  Isn't everything?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 05, 2010, 02:53:15 am
Although this is somewhat of an old topic, and I am new to this specific forum, I hope that the following insight/question is not out of sorts.

With the recent negative whirlwind of media attention irresponsibly casting shadows of doubt, suspicion, and condemnation on the Vampire and Gothic community in regards to the Shelby Ellis case, I think it has demonstrated just how much hatred, bigotry, and prejudice there is in the general mainstream community towards Vampires.   (This is actually, in part, the subject of a current graduate paper that I am working on). 

With that said, I would think that it would be very difficult for many people to partake of a public internet community given that doing so is likely to make them a target for this kind of hatred and ridicule.  When you think of the case of Robert Maltby and Sophie Lancaster (who were just Goths, not even vampires) then those fears may be quite justified.  I know I rarely ever let it be known,  although I have been a lot more vocal as of late due to the my complete irritation over the Shelby Ellis thing.

So my question is this.  Is it possible that the bigotry towards the community is what is making it harder for people to participate and if so; what can we do to change the general perception and/or protect the rights of those in the Vampire and Gothic community?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 05, 2010, 03:37:08 am


people fear what they dont understand...sadly, many will never take the time to try and learn about our culture
the key is too educate the masses... and keep it up..
but alas... many just wont get it..


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 05, 2010, 05:21:33 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 05, 2010, 06:00:53 am
Cryptograms are always difficult to decipher. More so when its Christians versa Vampires | Besides, Vampires do seek the love of Christ. There isn't anything to decipher at all. People live their own lives. As do Goths, with their revival music etcetera.

Hardly. In my experience, vamps that are also part of a major religion are the minority, not the majority. While it is true many have had to deal with the faith and its followers, the generally prevailing mentality - again in my personal experience - is that most simply want no part of it, directly due to the hatred, ignorance, prejudice, discrimination, segregation, and intolerance that both the faith structure and those that follow it demonstrate.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 05, 2010, 06:17:21 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 05, 2010, 06:26:37 am
Eternment is not what I personally would consider a GOOD thing. Further, how can one walk away from that which does not exist?

You wanna preach your dogma, theres an entire section of it. Go have fun there.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 05, 2010, 08:28:51 am
-grins- I think I will let you have a blast with this one for a bit. I just cannot think of anything other than here to preach and speak derogatorily about others. I am really lost on this one.  ::)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 06, 2010, 04:30:25 am
Quote
people fear what they dont understand...sadly, many will never take the time to try and learn about our culture
the key is too educate the masses... and keep it up..
but alas... many just wont get it..

Unfortunately you are right, so many will not understand, and worse, they will not even try.  I have been fighting this battle all week, and I can not count the number of times I've heard things about how people are so "sick of you freaks" and that they do not want to know anything about the Gothic or Vampire community because they are all mentally ill pedophiles, etc.  (Pedophiles? Really? *shakes head*)  And of course irresponsible hysteria in the media does not help.  It is, of course, still a battle worth fighting, but I find all that hate rather disturbing and sad. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 06, 2010, 07:14:26 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 06, 2010, 07:17:47 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 06, 2010, 07:21:19 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 06, 2010, 10:33:17 am
  And as to the person who turns into a Vampire, the act of turning is usually done fine, he would learn to sustain himself as well, in much the same manner. Turned Vampires aren't evil as well.¬ 

¬  And if vampires were indeed killed, perhaps that would be folklore and magic. The usual story, is that of a Vampire being burnt alive, that would have to be false, as vampires stay out of tricky situations.

¬ ¬ 



This is a prime example of pure ignorance

Vampi(y)ers are NOT TURNED!
No sparkling shit going on (unless its make up)  ..
Jay,
This isn't a role playing site for the last time...
You are sending out the wrong information again...
You should post before the meds/drugs/booze kicks in....just a suggestion


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Etheros Twilight on November 06, 2010, 10:51:05 am
No need to get hostile here Wraith. Anyone who sees a post on here suggesting that vampires can be 'created' or 'turned' or any such means also sees the plethora of responses stating otherwise...If they cannot discern that the mass opinion is worth listening to, well....thats their own problem. If he really is a problem as suggested, then the best you can do is report the post and allow a mod to apply a timely swing of the banhammer. Fore!

(the irony of my first sentence just sunk in....rofl)

Personally I feel that human nature is cyclical, and activity in the OEC (or more specifically the OVC in this case) is no exception. There is not a doubt in my mind, however that there is a large bleed-through between the two, as vamps by nature are predisposed to be energyworkers. With recent events shedding negative light on the community, (albeit the majority of these being outsiders to the community spreading a bad name for us) It's understandable that people will want to distance themselves from the whole for a bit. Those who are steadfast will return, those who have less to inquire or offer will fade away.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 06, 2010, 11:05:33 am
lmao....
that was far from hostile...
You should have read his previous "drug/med/ drunken" induced post about peoples of english descent...
He will not receive safe quarter from me thank you..


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 06, 2010, 12:01:32 pm
Turned vamps, blablabla. next this one will be saying that psis are real vamps and sangs not.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 06, 2010, 02:01:35 pm
A fed up mod gave the ok for self policing from certain individuals. I will not tolerate someone changing a post and then acting as though they are innocent and nothing was said wrong. I am not stupid and will not be made out as an unintelligent dolt talking out of my ass. This seems to be a reoccuring problem with this poster looking at past postings. For one...a good friend was spoken badly about as they are full on British and two...well -evil grin- Someone else has been behaving because I told him to..no matter what is said to him or about him...he is also running posts by me because I told him to -Grabs RKs collar *I* placed upon him- Someone else extremely dear to me was also offended by the British comment and I told him he may deal with this person as he wishes as well as my friend who was offended. Picture clearer now?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 06, 2010, 02:13:26 pm
Being that I am also a quarter british and a quarter scot myself, I found the comment disgusting. I have no qualm, personally, about judging someone based on thier CHOICES - religion included and in particular - but I do NOT judged based on what is out of their control - birth place, skin, gender and so forth.

Nadia, You are enjoying this entirely too much btw.  ;)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 06, 2010, 02:20:12 pm
Moi? Nah...not yet.  ;D LOL..wait for it...waaaaiiiiiittttt foooorrrrr iiiiittttt......  ;)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 06, 2010, 04:46:54 pm
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 06, 2010, 05:58:31 pm
.... OK, Could someone please explain to me what the Hades hes going on about?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 06, 2010, 06:15:10 pm
That he/she is enjoying their acid trips....and wants to share them publicly....

edited to ad: Jayant..it would behoove you to also not take shots at Christians as I have many Christian posters as well. Cheap shots are not allowed...discussions..fine...other wise I will block that as well. You can ask RK about that.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 06, 2010, 06:31:49 pm
Ohh hell no!
I was born in england you slimy plastic fuck
Stick!
'English Descent', that would have to be a real big Vampire, to beat ww1 and ww2, and make it unscathed, the seals could have done better. The seals down north are better than the seals down south. Gravity might just be the answer. There is more gravity at the north compared to the south. The seals are well behaved. As to ww1 and ww2, it was entirely east european, and the Romanians played no part. Are there Vampires around, we wouldn't know would we?.

'Shelby', yes the name does sound idiotic, and the British do sound idiotic as well, with their accent. Maybe it comes from their belief in Christ. Apart from where, i would have nothing else racist to shout on. Perhaps, 'English' may be substituted for 'British'.


Care to try that again with no derogatory type remarks and leaving fantasy behind while only speaking about facts? I have no qualms moving anything and everything you say similar to this off from public view. Also, loose the thesaurus, you still sound heavily unintelligent in your postings no matter your word usage.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 06, 2010, 07:55:25 pm
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 06, 2010, 08:04:52 pm
caught ya!
how did you know me being a plastic fuck stick?, The Brits suck and thats all there is to it. iv known quite a few, and i couldnt spell better.


As to being a fuck stick, you may have taken pot shots at the staff. Besides, that just went even over being racist. iv written a few books, and that was not decent. There isn't anything i can do about shelby being a sport. Try horsing around a stick, maybe that'll make you feel better.

As to being derogatory, in a remark, i never was, caught in action. Try doin' a course in advanced thermoware, that'll make you feel a lot better.

My apologies for such an error of proportion.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 06, 2010, 08:19:42 pm
....jayant, do you have anything of substance to add, past racial slurs and ignorant stupidity? Anything at all?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 07, 2010, 01:05:08 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 07, 2010, 01:12:23 am
this is compleatly off topic from the OP
time to get back on track
....jayant, do you have anything of substance to add, past racial slurs and ignorant stupidity? Anything at all?

Porphyrria, isnt a blood disorder, its how Vampires control their appetite. Porphyrria comes from a desire to quench the thirst or hunger, that might be often extreme for a Vampire. It is cognated as equivalent to a 'slurring of the speech'. Men get that partially from the hooves of a horse. Vampires feel that often. But it is 'not' a Blood based disorder.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 07, 2010, 01:41:19 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 07, 2010, 02:00:31 am
nor was it associated with any other groups
anyways .... back to the OP

yeah and schizophrenia was never associated with vampires. If i may be excused for having come upfront.
[/quote]


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 07, 2010, 03:13:46 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Etheros Twilight on November 07, 2010, 11:27:28 am
Wow....you really are on acid or something aren't you? (If youre sober, i apologize to any stoners reading this right now, frankly i find it hard even for someone burnt out to be that nuts)

That said, please swallow some ridilin or prosac or whatever psychotropic your doctor gave you to pass you off as a normal human being. It's evident you're not up to your dosage recommendation.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: jayant ratna on November 07, 2010, 11:42:17 am
...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 08, 2010, 01:51:34 am
Apparently I chose the wrong time to try and join the conversation.....


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Etheros Twilight on November 08, 2010, 11:37:59 am
No, i think you chose the right time to join in. By ratna's last post it would appear things are getting to normal again and we should begin returning to the OP.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 08, 2010, 07:30:03 pm
Interestingly enough, I would point out that much of it IS seeing such blatantly idiotic stuff, as demonstrated above, that causes many of the more sensible types to say, screw this noise, Im outa here.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: NyteMuse on November 08, 2010, 07:44:33 pm
Interestingly enough, I would point out that much of it IS seeing such blatantly idiotic stuff, as demonstrated above, that causes many of the more sensible types to say, screw this noise, Im outa here.

Seconded. I've dropped more than one forum/list because there was too much stoopid or it was causing more head-desking than head-scratching. If people don't see something of value from a list, they're outta there.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 08, 2010, 11:28:05 pm
I think there are some good points there, and I am not exactly a social butterfly myself, so when I find a new community if it seems like it's already a clique only place, or it's more drama than substance I tend to just leave as quietly as I came.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Etheros Twilight on November 09, 2010, 01:40:34 pm
I find virtue in all interaction....except morons....they're only good for target practice.  :P

Seriously though, I believe that any discourse can be intellectual....for instance a friend and i had a fascinating discussion the other day about sex and how god wants us to 'be fruitful and multiply' and how it was funny that we began with his complaints about his girlfriend's 'religious purity' affecting her sex drive..

A typical 'gutter' conversation that most people would have avoided, actually blossomed into an intellectual debate when we started going back and forth with various religions, finally settling on the relevant christian scripture as its his girlfriend's christian (mis)beliefs that started the whole dilemma.

Thats just my take on it though...does anyone else share my feelings? Perhaps someone puts them into action and seeks out conversations to revive in a better light?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 09, 2010, 07:03:19 pm
I do not know, personally I tend to avoid human contact whenever possible.  When I do try to speak up or make a point, such as with the recent media thing, I get stupid comments with people making fun of me and insulting me and things like "I suggest Dgirl goes and re-reads Dr. Martin Luther Dracula's "I had a vein" speech. " followed by everyone thinking it was sooo funny (in response to a conversation about the rights of those in the Vampire or Gothic community).  (I've also gotten hate mail and threats, etc as a result, aren't people grand?)  And I do not think that it is such childish behavior that gets to me so much as it is the fact that no matter where I am, or what the topic is, for the most part I am always alone.  I never have back up from anyone, or a sane person anywhere saying "hey she's right".  So more and more, I feel like I should not even bother to have a conversation with humans in the first place, they never listen.

No, I am not saying this for the pitty party thing, just trying to use a recent personal example to illustrate why I think a lot of people who could partake of a fruitful conversation are often the ones living in caves and not engaging because it always seems to be so hard and pointless. How do you reach those people and convince them that a conversation or community is worth the effort?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: the pink lady on November 09, 2010, 10:44:07 pm
How do you reach those people and convince them that a conversation or community is worth the effort?

Are you talking about those in the VC/OVC or those outside it? It's really hard to convince either group to do anything that isn't ridiculous, to be honest.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Dantess on November 09, 2010, 11:15:42 pm
Rayna, I know how you feel, I don't normally get all the bad results, but I feel I'm growing further apart from the mundane world because they are superduper ridiculious. the funny thing is they don't get it.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 09, 2010, 11:54:30 pm
Rayna, I know how you feel, I don't normally get all the bad results, but I feel I'm growing further apart from the mundane world because they are superduper ridiculious. the funny thing is they don't get it.
'

Likewise, and honestly, I think today was my breaking point.  I just can not deal with them anymore.  And as you said, they say and the most insane things and think you are the crazy one.  For example, I had a group of ...people...tell me today that no one is ever bullied or harassed for being a Vampire or being Goth, etc. and they then chose to prove that by making fun of me and verbally bullying/insulting me for being a stupid Goth Vampire, etc.  Hmm.... didn't that just kind of defeat their own argument?  o_0

I use to be more of an emissary, I use to be able to walk between the dayworld and the night world, sort to speak, but more and more I can not seem to relate to them at all.  And I do not have a very strange accent, I use small simple words, I am quite educated, and yet, no matter what I say it always seems like I am speaking a foreign language to them -_-


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Etheros Twilight on November 12, 2010, 11:29:25 am
My...my....My sympathies for your experiences. I have no idea where you're from, but it would appear people are rather backwards there.

Perhaps these people have realized that 'gay bashing' isnt with the times and tried to find someone else to make them feel better about how unstable their own little lives are.

...I realize that its against the point of acceptance as a part of being sentient to say this, but personally i find myself in a rather Darwinist perspective when it comes to such low intelligence creatures...If the human race is sentient, then I find it hard to humanize them...just as with all the other undesirable elements of our race...nature can no longer take it's course against them....I hope they're not stupid enough to become violent, although they have threatened you....

The cost of one valuable life is not justified by the removal of any amount of scum.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 13, 2010, 01:36:39 pm
To quote something that I am working on....."I would rather be humane, than to be a part of your humanity."

I have noticed that MOST (no, not all) of the extremely hysterical comments come from the right and the South or similar "redneck" towns.  And thankfully I no longer live anywhere near the mason-dixon lol.  Unfortunately, I am also starting to notice that a lot of this hatred for the "abnormal" is spreading beyond that point.  I have been hearing stories of Goth kids getting spit on, even their parents call them "freaks and deviants".  And, as I have mentioned before, there is such a hate for the word "vampire" that it immediately results in a witch hunt mentality....even in RP/Virtual communities.  Which is kind of funny if you think about it ...  they say that people who are into vampires, believe in vampires, identifiy as vampires, etc. are all crazy and mentally ill because vampires are not real.  Yet, they have all of this fear and hatred for something that they claim does not exist, so, would that not make them the crazy ones? o_0

As far as violence, I am sure I will be fine...but I worry about other people and wonder how long it will be until we have another Sophie Lancaster case.  I am being hacked though, isn't that nice  ::)



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 13, 2010, 02:43:48 pm
Being that I am far south of the Mason Dixon....I am not seeing what you are claiming Rayna. I have yet to see much in the way of "witch hunts" any where around here and I keep a good eye on all that. I am also an extremely open Occultist/Witch and have not had any problems at all and am liked by those of all religions. To the point I am also always invited into churches for special dinners and holiday events though they know I will not be converted. I am getting the feeling you suffer from a bit of paranioa and seem to enjoy it.... ???


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 13, 2010, 06:02:22 pm
lol... im in the deep south... i havent seen it either.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 13, 2010, 10:30:24 pm
Yeah...in the south we tend to be proud of our ghosts and you are piss if you have not had an experience. Just about anyone has been to Madame Dubois' tomb to speak with her and ask for her blessings and help. In many areas if you do not walk into many out in the open "witches" within an hour you are blind. Vampires are cool around here for the most part. The Masquerade club here in Atlanta uses it's own personal Vampire connections to gain patrons. The craft is both feared and revered around here to the point you really do not get messed with. Hells...I have been asked to make healing candles and pray over sick and dieing loved ones by those of many different faiths. You can ask RK..it is rare that my phone is ever silent or I am not griping about hundreds of emails from people. I REALLY REALLY do not see it.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 13, 2010, 10:34:07 pm
ha! now im gonna ring ya! lol


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 14, 2010, 12:25:51 am
LMAO....
edited to add...that now only works if I am not busy with coughRKcough....people have began to learn how to leave a message on my phone LOL.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 14, 2010, 12:44:45 am
I grew up in the Appalachian region and it was certainly not like that at all.  There was a wiccan bookstore that attempted to open near by. They ended up torching the place three times before finally running the people out of town and I still remember that I was never allowed to play with my neighbors kid when I was little because his father was convinced that I was a witch and ran around screamnig it to everyone (I was only 6 at the time).   In the deep south, around the bayou  in particular, I agree there is far too much history and experince with the occult, but that is not the case when you go farther towards the Appalachian mountains.  And as I said, most of the hate mail/comments I get come from people in the South.  That does not mean that everyone in the South feels that way, that is not a correlation, merely an observation.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 14, 2010, 01:14:55 am
I have family deeply rooted in those areas. Shamans to be exact. The worst they deal with is people trying to sell our ancestors bones back to us. Many others follow various witch craft/pagan type faiths and are never bothered as well. I know many shops through out the Appalachian regions that are occult stores and they have not had such problems. You may have your every once in a while weirdo who has a problem with it...usually a born again. Even so, I have had no problems and none of my family have had any problems. Not any of my friends all around that area either. It seems to be very prevalient there as well. I really am not seeing any of the problems you are describing any where being so bad in this area(South, Redneck towns and so on). Especially to the degree of having to be in fear of safety for anyone. It sounds like a bit of Paranoid Schizophrenia.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 14, 2010, 01:24:34 am
So be it, then I will just commune with the voices in my head and not bother posting again.

Good day.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 14, 2010, 12:52:57 pm
I'm just not digging the whole bashing of the South or Southerners when I personally have lived here my whole life and have seen things to be completely different than what you are stating. When you make broad statements like that to bash a whole region, you have to figure that SOMEONE will take you to task on it. Then add in I have seen your other postings which seem to be filled with fear for yourself or others due to attacks and so many other things, it begs the question of if it is real or just something in your head. I REALLY question such things when people begin claiming that they are being hacked as an attack on them personally. Hackers are after things they can use for monetary gain in most cases and hackers prefer to remain anonymous. They are also very egotistical and in my MANY years with computers, do not do such things for personal reasons such as disliking someone's religion. Your statements remind me very much of a former friend of mine's to a very scary degree and after the bashing of the South based on nothing really, I could not help but wonder aloud what the real problem may be.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on November 15, 2010, 01:11:55 am
Figured I'd pop in and offer my two-cents. 

Firstly, to your comments Rayna concerning feeling like no one listens, and and after feeling like you could wander in between daytime and nighttime type folks, and have recently begun to feel more and more quieted, I have to second that.  I fully relate to many of the points you made here.  So, I will offer the reality that you are not alone in that from where I'm sitting. 

Secondly, regarding the comments made regarding supposed tension or lack-there-of in the South, I would like to offer up something to ponder.  Dealing with any topic concerning pretty much anything is always multifaceted, meaning there are many different reasons for things.  I think for any individual, manifestation of ones experiences is a constant, based on ones own energy, mentality, intentions, and so on.  Rayna seems to have some issues socializing, finding it hard to relate to others with their immaturity, while you Nadia are exceptionally sociable and comfortable with interactions, from what I have seen.  Perhaps you are able to manifest great experiences or handle hardship (or both) and more quite nicely, while for others it remains harder and more tiresome.  And yes, great point regarding fear being an obstacle.  For myself, I've fought and battled with all of these things my entire life in what seems to be great abundance.  Spinning plates as a human being is not always easy.  Different people all have different ways of handling being offended.  Some take it to heart more than others, and that can come at a high price, but it still stands to reason that it happens.  For my part, I try to be very rarely judgmental of another's own limitations with handling adversity, and their own emotional limitations, especially where I struggle with social anxiety myself.  There's no benefit to it, so I try to avoid doing that.

Also, Etheros, I think you made a great point concerning maturity.  That is a huge factor as well. 

Lastly, there are absolutely offending people out there that continuously seek to harm those that might be different, especially when it comes to anything metaphysical or "occult" sounding.  I think perhaps, Nadia, you have built a great fanbase and support system of many friends in your area and others, and since you are surrounded with that support so much, might not see the other elements of things as much?  Not everyone can carry themselves in a way that's confident and know they have 20 some odd other locals or people within driving distance to help them if they happened to need it.  I certainly wish I had family shamans.  I don't know about anyone else regarding that.  But really, Shamans *dont* typically get messed with, because well, even many dim folks know not too mess with a shaman, no matter how much they might not understand it. 

Just some thoughts.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 15, 2010, 09:05:52 am
You have misinterpreted what I have said,Sangsavvy, as that I am out and about all the time as a social butterfly with an abundance of friends. It is more the opposite. I can count my friends on one hand. I avoid social situations as much as possible. It is word of mouth that brings total strangers seeking me. Other people are just acquaintances. Most times i turn down invites to social gatherings as the accumalative energies and emotions tend to annoy the piss out of me as do most mundanes. There is also a difference between social anxiety and outright constantly moaning that everyone is out to get you. Especially that one would go so far as to hack into your computer for such reasons. I lived with that former friend of mine for about a year, I am just calling it as I see it. I am also not going to sit idly by as untruths are passed about either. The South is not as bad as they were making it out to be. Firstly slamming the South and Southerners as a whole and then secondly back peddling to state it is only the Appalachians and then when faced with the fact someone also knows those areas as well to go outright and back away should tell you something. THAT IT IS NOT TRUE. My youngest brother also suffers from social anxiety so much so he had to be home schooled and is going through college online and looking for a job he can do from his computer at home. He never stated that everyone was out to get him and meant for him to die or anything like that.

Edited to add: I would also like to point out that I am by far not being mean or attacking this poster, trust me, it is VERY easy to know when I am. I am making an observation based on my education and experiences after reading through all their postings.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 15, 2010, 08:52:52 pm
i feel like going cow tipping....lmao...
MCD baby!


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 15, 2010, 08:57:36 pm
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!   mooooooooooooooooooooooo


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 15, 2010, 08:59:03 pm
Id rather go to this farm in Texas Ive heard of that one is literally allowed to take a rocket launcher and go cow hunting. Not sure if its true, but itd be EPIC if it were.....


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 15, 2010, 09:02:18 pm
that would be insane!
if ya use a TOW missile... you could fly it and chase there soon to be BBQ 'd asses....lmao


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on November 16, 2010, 07:52:19 am
Honestly, Nadia, it *is* a bit hard to interpret your meaning and intention.  I sort of feel like you're trying to make your points in a million directions.  Text can be tough to hear intent of course. 

I have to differ with you on the bashing regions point.  I'm just gonna come out and say it.  Yes there are unique situations and individuals in every area, but in my experience (which isn't too much, but I've lived in a couple places in the country so far) folks have a tenancy to enjoy wearing whatever stereotypes their area has become pinned with on their sleeve.  People like to feel like they belong, and so tend to defend whatever place they're from with a vengeance, lest they feel personally offended. 

-shrugs-  It happens. 

Anyway, thanks for your clarifications.

Lastly, I will add that it can be pretty easy to feel like everyone you come into contact with is against you.  I've dealt with it, and I've only met a couple of people in my life who haven't ever really struggled with such a thing. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 16, 2010, 09:08:24 am
Hmmm....14 piercings...check...3 tattoos with more planned...check....dark blood red hair...check.....DESPISES country music...check....pentacle in plain sight...check....dark clothing....check... farm still on my property....CHECK. No, I don't really fit the stereotype for this area. Other than the fact I am a chicken and goat farmer, can break a horse, and my horses and I can herd animals as good as anyone else around here. I rather stick out like a sore thumb as it were. I actually despise this state really, as it is extremely disgusting/dirty/polluted and the judicial system in the main areas fail it's citizens more than it has ever done right by them. Now if she were to have said the same as I did in the previous sentence...I would have had to of agreed. She said that the South is basically THE worst about sending her nasty grams and threats and that they are the least tolerant when it comes to different religions, is basically bashing the region in a way. Then add to the fact that when saying such, she was taken to task about her claims pertaining to the WHOLE south and kept back peddling from there when posed with information that differed from her claims from someone who has lived in the area and has family all around the south.

Anxieties are based on the body not being able to handle the stress placed upon itself from it's own brain. It can include very real physical problems such as stomach problems(IBS is the most common), headaches, nausea, shaking, breathing difficulty, passing out, anger and so on. Anxieties are brought about when the mind cannot cope with certain situations or things. Such as what you two are speaking about, Social Anxiety.

Paranoia Schizophrenia is completely different. It CAN co-exist with a whole host of different problems including Social Anxiety. This is when the mind tells itself that others are out to get the person it belongs to. Not just a dislike of the person. Outright that others wish to harm the person. Which is what the poster was exhibiting in her postings. That people would wish her bodily harm, wanted her dead, were hacking her computer and so on.

UNLESS, of course, you are insinuating that the poster may have social anxiety, but has another psychological problem that would cause her to be a pathological liar in order to obtain sympathy from others? I mean it could be a possibility, your right. Though that is not what I was seeing. At least her postings did not point to such a problem as far as I have learned in my education into Psychology. When we covered such problems in class, the two were not linked. I will also add that I made the observation not only to point out to her that her claims about the south may be all in her head basically, but so that maybe others would cease with any horror stories or what have you pertaining to her posts claiming that she is in danger from others so that they would cease enabling her and feeding her fears. KWIM?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 16, 2010, 09:35:32 am
She also has a decent hand with raccoons. :p


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 16, 2010, 10:43:37 am
i hear voices... and they agree with nadia.....lmao


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on November 16, 2010, 06:12:47 pm
Points noted. 

Well, I appreciate all of your tattoos and piercings and such.  Sounds awesome that you can handle it.  As far as Rayna is concerned, you've made it clear you apparently know her better than myself or any of us here.  I suppose it confused me initially as to why you might be jumping to conclusions about her.  Also note, um no, I never said anything about Rayna being a pathological liar... or perhaps you were insinuating a possible thing I might say while you were in your tangent... Regardless, I have no idea about that point whatsoever. 

Well, I didn't mean for this to get off topic for so long.  Hope you're not all too pissed for me asking questions.  I didn't mean to try to make you feel like I was directly attacking you. 




Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Rayna on November 16, 2010, 06:51:43 pm
I am leaving the AVA forum and will never bother posting on here again after the way that you creatures have behaved.  I am so happy that you enjoyed making fun of me and insulting me so much, one would have thought I could expect better here among people who should know better instead of the same type of crap that we get from mundanes, but I guess you're just human after all.

I will set the record straight that Nadia does not know me, she knows nothing about me, she does not even know who I am and the claims that she does are nothing more than out right lies.

But I suppose you are too busy being judgemental jerks to care about facts....oh, and way to go to prove that people from that south are not rude and judgemental, I believe that is called Check Mate.

I would be careful about acting in such a fashion, one of these days you just may find yourself no the other end of the same mean spiritedness that you have aimed at other people.

Good Bye.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 16, 2010, 07:59:41 pm
Savvy, I was going on her postings. I am not pissed...just discussing...if I were pissed, you would know it. As far as attacking me personally...nope. You did not even make me feel that way either.

Rayna, there was nothing rude or what have you about what I have said. Try reading it again while keeping in mind I was making an OBSERVATION about you/your postings. At the same time realize you are going off on a tangent screaming you are a victim when you are not. Which was my initial point in all of this to begin with. IT IS IN YOUR HEAD. Now...if you would like to post EVIDENCE to show your facts are indeed facts....that would be a different story. Otherwise, what you have stated seems nothing more than LIES you have come up with that have left you feeling as though you are a victim and are indeed in grave danger every day.

RK...I think I have become a pro at that lol.  ;) edited to add: It helps when you put a metal permanent  collar on a raccoon to handle him with.  ;D


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 16, 2010, 08:42:47 pm
Ya know, I think one might use this latest escapade as another, somewhat different example of what contributes to the decline of posting on the OVC - the "butt hurt syndrome".  Ie, people far too overly sensitive to legitimate, reasonable, solid criticism and quick to go off the handle in a dramatic display.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on November 16, 2010, 09:57:37 pm
Wow. 

Nadia, you definitely made it sound like you knew her.  And definitely made it sound like you knew all of her psychologic damage from a couple of posts.  That is indeed part of the reasoning I made when I came and spoke out in this thread in the very beginning.  Not to say that you've become accountable for every one of my negative observations, but simply that judging a person from a couple of posts like you know them is, well, ridiculous.  If you don't know her...don't act like you do...  What if I treated you that way?  What if anyone did?  I doubt you'd like it.  Most everyone doesn't.  You never said well hey, show us some proof Rayna.  You just assumed. 

She isn't "backpeddaling", she sounds sick of defending herself to people jumping to conclusions and making her feel like shes going to need to be put on trial with others for another round.  You might know the south from your life, Nadia, but you're not the damn spokesman for the Southern region, or everyone in it.  And furthermore, although you might have been schooled in psychology, it doesn't automatically give you the right to rip another human being apart.

EVEN IF YOU WERE RIGHT. 

It does not justify talking to or treating another human being with disrespect.  Having some bluntness, strict tones, obviously everyone has the right to express themselves however they would like.  I am merely citing a standard that would have quite a bit more integrity than the alternatives. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 16, 2010, 10:09:42 pm
Ya know, I have to disagree. I didnt see bullying or anything of the like here, just legitimate questioning, and past that, there ARE people that deserve their asses handed to them; for if more people did get their hides tanned, maybe the world would be a better place.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 16, 2010, 10:18:35 pm
She made more than just a couple of posts through out the whole forum. Also, I didn't rip her apart. No one here has ever seen me rip a person apart. I was being blunt and to the point. There is again, a difference. Otherwise...and? I really hope you do not think you can get to me. Hard to do when a person could care less what others think of them. IOW...you are wasting your energy and anger and twisting of what has been said in an attempt to be a martyr in all of this.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on November 16, 2010, 10:23:50 pm
I never said they're aren't people that deserve it, but Rayna did nothing to deserve anything like that.  

Furthermore, of course you would disagree RK.  You think it's your right to say and do whatever you feel like, and should have no repercussions for it whatsoever.  The more hateful or cynical you are, the more it seems you are happy with yourself.  And no matter what anyone says, you just have to say the opposite, like a compulsion to seem like you can prove others wrong no matter what, basically making yourself seem more intelligent or high up in thought comprehension, when really all you're doing is bsing your way through every thread and post about peoples livelihood as much as possible.  Good for you for doing so at the expense of others time and energy.  

As I've said in the past, it's a shame, because you have a good side, RK.

Nadia, even if that wasn't your worst, it certainly wasn't your best.  Furthermore, saying what you wanted, and then trying to make me sound like I am the troublemaker when I simply wasn't agreeing with you is a bit sad. 



Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 16, 2010, 10:40:06 pm
And what, praytell, would you know of me (or of Nadia for that matter), savvy? Weve conversed little here, and I am unaware of you elsewhere. What would you know of my nature, my likes, my habits, past what very little I display here, hm? What would you know of my good or bad side at all?  Seems to me that it would be very little, lest you are here under false pretenses?  Now granted, I dont particularly hide myself, I have a very long, somewhat sordid history with the OVC, however, considering the facts that this very topic has established; that there are liars, wannabes, pissants, twits and such that come and go in the OVC, it would stand that someone like, say, me, someone who has a track record of calling people out on their bullshit, standing up against oppressive morons or be willing to say that which MANY wont stand up and say *pointed hint to some in this very board*, that I would indeed aquire a rather lengthy list of detractors and naysayers.   

Therefore, I would ask, out of common courtesy and respect, that unless you have something substantial to base your comments on regarding me, and are willing to back them up, to can them.

(And that, FYI, is an example of someone baring but a claw.)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: SangSavvy on November 16, 2010, 10:53:12 pm
You just aren't listening.  Nor will you. 

Taking my leave now. 

Think whatever the heck you wanna think.  I guess it's just fighting a losing battle. 


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 16, 2010, 10:55:10 pm
This is me holding up a mirror for you to look upon yourself.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 17, 2010, 12:03:31 am
damn...
what did i miss?
sorry i was busy playing solitare with my other 5 personas..


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Nadia115 on November 17, 2010, 12:41:28 am
Who won?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: display on November 17, 2010, 01:03:46 am
i dont know yet...they are still arguing...lmao


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Sanguinarius on November 17, 2010, 02:41:56 pm
but I guess you're just human after all.

I hate to break it to you, honey, but you're human, too.  Period. Maybe different, but human. We all are biologically human. And yes, we aren't any better than anyone else.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 18, 2010, 08:00:03 pm
but I guess you're just human after all.

I hate to break it to you, honey, but you're human, too.  Period. Maybe different, but human. We all are biologically human. And yes, we aren't any better than anyone else.

Very, very true - Something that the OVC in particular needs a rather stern reminder of, hm?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Etheros Twilight on November 23, 2010, 05:24:27 pm
Wow....a LOT has been said since i last read this thread (3 whole pages!)

I almost want to just keep my mouth shut here....but frankly I find it too disgusting for people to act upon their own compulsions and emotions and ignore a good intellectual debate.

Rayna, if you still have the spine to be reading this thread after your 'poor me, I'm leaving!' post, I would say you need to learn a bit of maturity...the world is full of much harsher people than what you experienced here...This is a nice group, and if you cant realize that people ARE pulling their punches here to try not to hurt your feelings, then perhaps you need to take a step back and re-evaluate how much of your persecution is perceived and how much is actual.

Savvy, no one likes a paladin....if you want to defend the weak and hopeless go stand in front of a tank somewhere..Come back when you have learned more about human nature and yourself.
Seriously....coming from someone with a very strong guardian aspect, you need to learn when to control your compulsions.

Nadia/RK....I don't have much to say on your posts. Sticking to personal observations and trying not to deviate down the road of hypotheticals/theories that may be considered insulting or personally attacking would be the best i can muster.

As far as my opinion of the south....It's too large an area to classify in any specific terms...I thought the town I moved to was hick and insensitive given that I'm technically in the 'Bible Belt' now...but after living here for a bit I've seen much acceptance to the pagan community here....so I am rather hopeful. Then again, I think that age has a lot to do with it....my current area is home to multiple colleges....and as such there is more open minded youngsters, if you pardon my phrase....compared with my old town which was a retirement capital...and banned the magic/supernatural section from the local Barnes&Nobel in favor of a "christian inspiration" section.....one of the few times i felt like torching a building was then....but I opted for the much more legal means of vocally and publicly boycotting the entire franchise....not that it hurt me to drive 5 min down the road to the local Borders....which never followed suit, especially given that as i got to know the staff a bit, a good number of them are not mundane.

I can't say I've been persecuted for being a vampire....I don't state that I am one...I used to identify as a sympathetic vampire given that my deficiency was not inborn but rather a byproduct of a rather unique situation i was in. I've since learned to generate enough energy to fuel myself and my energy work. I have openly shared my history with my close circle of friends, much to some of them being shocked, others acknowledging in understanding of the signs I've tried to show them over the years. Its not something we talk about, but they accept me as they always have. Even my one friend who denies anything beyond the physical existing, despite a skeptical look when i first opened up to him, is completely fine. If anyone has a problem with me, it is for me, and not what i am. I expect no different of myself towards others.

As I once told someone who responded to my disposition towards them by labeling me as racist, "I don't care if you are black, white, green, elf, dog, or even if you label yourself as a freakin martian...YOURE AN ASSHOLE!...Your skin has nothing to do with your parents not raising you right."...The same applies here....If only people could just look at each other on an equal level without putting the biases of race, religion, political stance or sexuality(except the lack thereof, i am biased against that....everyone should be able to get laid...it's just sad if one team or another doesn't do it for you) on the table....Thank you for listening to my rant, if you have read this far, have a cookie. =)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on November 24, 2010, 12:16:38 am
Ah hells Thought, if you have something on your mind, feel free to say it - Im a big raccoon, i dont cry the first time someone says something mean, if I did, id never of stayed ten years on the OVC. ;)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Merticus on November 30, 2010, 01:28:09 pm
Since my original posting on July 14, 2010 overall community participation via forums, ning, yahoo, and other sites has dropped on average an additional 15 to 40% - depending on format (37.6% on Yahoo Groups alone).


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: childofthespiral on December 03, 2010, 09:39:15 pm
I've only just gotten internet back and may not have it long, due to the economy and total lack of jobs. I was forced to move from the place I've lived in literally 15 years, since I was 10 years old, and move 2,000 miles away to a place where I know nothing and no one, and where my nearest relative is over 1500 miles away, in the hopes of finding a job in a more job friendly environment. I'm wondering if maybe the state of the economy in the U.S. and worldwide has something to do with a drop in online participation? I would've been here every day from the day I signed up if it had been financially possible.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Merticus on January 04, 2011, 12:32:08 pm
http://www.aquilus.net/
http://www.nocturnalvoices.com

"All community sites that were hosted on Aquilus.net and NocturnalVoices.com are now closed."



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/real-vampires/message/52199

Real Vampires Will Close
January 1, 2011


The results of the poll are in and, out of 314 members, we only received 23
votes. That's less than ten percent (10%) of the membership. With such low
numbers, I can't justify keeping the list open.

Here's what will happen:

The list will remain on Yahoo's servers to preserve the archives. Current
members will have access to old posts, but no new posts will be allowed. No new
members will be permitted to join and the automated messages will be eliminated.
The group description will be updated to show that we're closed.

If you like the Yahoo format, I recommend checking out the Vampirism and
Shadowlore lists. Both are active and I know the people who run them. I can
vouch for the quality of both groups. Vampirism is geared more toward practical
techniques, both psychic and sanguinarian. Shadowlore is geared more toward
Otherkin and general discussion of a wide range of topics.

If you prefer a message board format, I recommend the Atlanta Vampire Alliance
(www.atlantavampirealliance.com) for general discussion. Joining the forum
doesn't make you a member of the AVA; you have to live in Atlanta, GA to apply.

If you're a psychic feeder or hybrid, Lono runs a good forum at the Psychic
Vampire Support Pages (www.psychicvampire.org) or you can check out the House
Kheperu forums (www.kheperu.org). Again, joining the HK forums doesn't make you
a member of House Kheperu. Membership in HK is by invitation only
- Forums Closed. The House
Kheperu forums are good for advanced techniques but, if you're a novice, you
will probably have more success with Lono's board.

For general news that is of interest to the community and discussion of
articles, the Vampire Community News group on Facebook
(vampirecommunitynews@... ) is good. However, you should be
aware of this caveat: The VCN group on FB is open to anyone and
everyone...including some real wackjobs. Take anything said in the discussions
with a hefty amount of salt. Even schizophrenics make sense once in awhile;
just because it *sounds* good doesn't mean it's legitimate.

AcrophobicPixie runs *the* best donor support forum on the web. The URL is
www.blackswanhaven.org. If you're a donor or would like to be one, you should
definitely check it out.

There are other vampire forums out there, such as Isealdor's Vampire Realms of
Darkenss (vampires.nu), The Vampire Church on Yahoo - Closed/Moved, or the Real Vampire and
Occult Community at aquilus.net
- Closed, but the ones I've listed are the ones I know
are both active and high quality. I encourage you to look around and find a
group you like. For that matter, join several groups, because each one has a
different feel and you'll be exposed to a wider variety of opinions and
information.

Finally, thank you for helping make the Real-Vampires Community Alliance one of
the longest running vampire discussion groups on the internet. Ten years is a
good, long life. It's time to pass the torch to others who have more time and
more energy to devote to groups like this one.

Seek your own path and never stop questioning.

Sylvere ap Leanan


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: sphynxcatvp on January 04, 2011, 12:52:25 pm
I have a listing for Vampire Church forums at: http://www.vampire-church.com/cms/forum/ and postings seem to be current.

:)


Admin:  Yes, the Yahoo Group closed (rather was closed and deleted).  They moved to a forum-based system now.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Oblivionburns on January 17, 2011, 12:39:17 am
This is sick.  I recently got involved because I really like this forum.  Well I guess it's time to stop learning from all of you and walk my own path.  Goodbye, sweet Cheri.  Goodbye, Sangsavvy.  A long, slow goodbye....  Coon & PD you'll be missed.  Nadia too.  Probably better this way.  I wonder what my next prospective employer will think when they see where I've been posting?  The VC will always be in my thoughts.  Child of the Spiral & Zerochan, vitchy & WingedwolfPsion... adieu.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on January 17, 2011, 12:54:00 am
Ya know, I think that is most likely (I am assuming here Oblivion, correct me if I am wrong) the biggest reason for the decline in the community - not the drama, but the individual realization that, if one wishes to have a high end, professional career, being part of the OVC or anything occult is a liability. Ultimately, only those without a family or career that is risked by being part of such things remain.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Catori on January 17, 2011, 12:55:40 am
Why are you leaving Oblivion????? I am absolutely confused...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: RKCoon on January 17, 2011, 12:56:22 am
Errr, waitaminute -- Oblivion, I think your confusing Mert's posting of another person at another site for AVA. Far as Im aware, AVA isnt going anywhere.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: AVA Staff on January 17, 2011, 01:16:15 am
The AVA isn't going anywhere... the post earlier was regarding a Yahoo Group (RVCA)...


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Oblivionburns on January 17, 2011, 03:01:03 am
I'm humbled & thankful this place isn't going anywhere.  I still wonder about what prospective employers will see or think, but then I also wonder what business it is of theirs what I do with my personal, private life?!  Sorry if I came off as a sobber.  I didn't understand the post until I read it again.  I love seeing what you all think... it makes me feel more sane.  It's been suggested that I'm in need of medication.  I'd rather have the raw hand I'm dealt & experience it as far as I'm able.  Hearing what you all have to say makes me feel I'm not alone.  Not to discredit my husband's awareness that this is really happeneing (& he feeds me when I'm hungry) but it's always nice to know there are others who experience the same symptoms of hunger & the same effects of feeding.  Also the same social stigmas that go along with being the way we are.  I can't hide it for long.  Most people feel uneasy around me anyway, so I feel a safe haven in this forum.  Thank you guys & gals.  I guess I was wrong & I won't go anywhere either.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: childofthespiral on January 17, 2011, 08:06:40 am
I'm touched that you'd miss me :)


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Oblivionburns on January 17, 2011, 05:55:38 pm
Child of the Spiral, I would.  Glad I just made a dumb mistake.  Back on topic, Coon pointed out a very real problem which to me boils down to this:  there's a problem with snooping busybodies who get paid huge salaries to poke at a computer all day & dig up what they consider dirt on people who are just trying to get an effing job.  I'm sitting at home right now because somebody didn't like what I posted on the internet in geberal.  I've tried having an e-mail address just for work contacts, hell I have 4 different accounts right now, all of which are easily traced back to my IP at home.  When prospective employers Google me they get a load of occult websites & Nightmare Productions' page of Scream Queens.  Wonderful.  They'd never guess what kind of weird crap I'm interested in if it weren't for the carte blanche they're given to pry away for no good reason at all.  I guess I'm already out of the coffin, but this is a real issue & somehow, someone needs to change a few privacy laws.  Some jobs won't hire because of a low credit score, they see it as a sign of inconsistency.  In this day & age, REALLY?!  The same goes for those of us who live among "them" as best we can according to how they allow us to.  I'm fed up about it & I think we all should be.  Thoughts?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Catori on January 17, 2011, 06:20:18 pm
Try an IP cloaking program. If I wanted to I could look as though I live and am surfing the web in Guam. It comes in handy with snoopers like that.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: childofthespiral on January 18, 2011, 03:05:24 pm
Is that free? Where can one be found that's reliable, and decently priced?


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on January 23, 2011, 10:35:02 am
Ya know, I think that is most likely (I am assuming here Oblivion, correct me if I am wrong) the biggest reason for the decline in the community - not the drama, but the individual realization that, if one wishes to have a high end, professional career, being part of the OVC or anything occult is a liability. Ultimately, only those without a family or career that is risked by being part of such things remain.

Really?  Not trying to call you out Koon, but I have a high end professional career, with a government clearance.  I know for a fact, my metaphysical as well as my fetish associations are well documented and known.  Yes, I had a *really* bad year last year.. but so did everyone.  I am back in the black now.

Further, these things have also been brought up in custody court, and were also non issues. 

Granted, I work under my own terms as a contract based engineer.  Perhaps that is what makes it all work.  But I have never been denied a clearance or a job because of my activities.

Just sayin.  It dosnt have to be a liability.  If you can show that these connections dont hinder your performance.. its workable, I think.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: childofthespiral on January 23, 2011, 11:44:15 pm
Fear of losing or not being given a good paying job would more likely keep someone from joining in the first place, I think, rather than join, participate, then leave. Like PD said everyone had a bad year last year, and usually frill spending like paying for internet is the first thing that gets cut. It's the reason I disappeared so soon after joining.

Also, I think (I don't know for sure, it's just an idea) that a small part of what is causing some people to avoid the community is all the attention given to the subject of vampires recently. A similar issue cropped up years ago on a wiccan-pagan board I belonged to. Harry Potter came out, then the "ohmygod they're teaching my child witchcraft" bullshit, and then suddenly new membership became virtually nonexistent. Now with the advent of all the vampire related movies and TV shows, the same is happening. The same right-wing pundits are spouting the same hellfire and damnation baloney they did then, and it'll blow over. The Harry Potter scare ran its course, and so will the "Twilight-True Blood- Vampire Diaries etc. is gonna ruin your child's future" scare.


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: Oblivionburns on February 06, 2011, 11:53:46 pm
Granted, I work under my own terms as a contract based engineer.  Perhaps that is what makes it all work.  But I have never been denied a clearance or a job because of my activities.

Just sayin.  It dosnt have to be a liability.  If you can show that these connections dont hinder your performance.. its workable, I think.
                         ~Paindancer


Oh, PD, you know I love ya, but I have no way to relate to your position.  I work in production/manufacturing mostly, & always 2nd shift.  The more my co-workers complain about how tired they are, the better I feel.  I try not to show it, but after dark I always feel energized.  They seem to think I"m trying to show them up.  And in my case, it IS a liability just because the whole vampire thing is creepy to some people in position to grant or deny employment.  Things aren't what they used to be, you know?  I used to be able to walk out of any job when it became intolerable & find another job in 2 days.  Now, I work through 5 temp agencies & have to wonder every day if I'll be called, who might call, & when I show if I'll be among those sent home because of overstaffing.  Some of these "staffing coordinators" have a lot of free time to Google people & it's really their opinions that count, not my job performance (which is pretty damn decent).  If they don't like the things people pay attention to in their own free time, these reps can just decide to "overlook" you for an open opportunity.  Add to that my long straight black hair, blue eyes & pale cracker skin, you've got a recipe for bias.  Personally I don't see what could possibly be so creepy about a fragile-looking little thing like me, but people treat me as if I've uncovered a dirty little secret of theirs & need to get rid of me.  Christ, I'm 5'3"/125# so how scary could I be?  And for the record, I'm extremely polite in public.  Nice, even.  Heavens to Mergutroid!


Title: Re: State Of The Online Vampire Community 2010: Declining Participation Levels?
Post by: paindancer on September 08, 2011, 12:56:21 pm
Ahhh Oblivi... maybe I will have to put you on staff when I make a political bid.  :)